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Rear end is 4.10 Torsen which came stock with the car. I'll try the ratio of the viscous LSD and see if that makes the graph look more realistic but it's likely not that final drive bcuz the car drifts and handles perfectly fine even with the boost.
The clutch is a sprung 6 puck with stock flywheel. The pressureplate and clutch is rated for like 280ftlbs of torque and only has around 10k miles on it or less (and was broken in properly).
Plus if the clutch slipped you'd feel it the revs definitely don't spike up or anything lol it grabs really hard all the time.
Here's the VD screen shot. The first 2 pulls are the baselines after I added some timing @ 11-13 PSI. And the last 3 pulls are after I added even more timing. Same boost levels. Same day. The smoothing at 2 is similar to smoothing 5. So I took the screen shot at 2.
Here's the timing before, this is the same map I used when I did the 16.5PSI runs and got nearly the same power as 11-13psi.
And the timing afterwards, I set the boost back to 11-13psi did the first 2 baselines then added all of that advance and still only netted 2wtq. I feel like if the problem were the advance, you'd yield a whole lot more than 2wtq overall. More like 10wtq+.
Be honest guys, don't try to push me to add more timing lol You know I should have 200whp with that spark map and 11-13psi of boost taper. Plus I personally know I can keep the advanced timing table it has and up the taper to 16.5psi again and still not hit that close to 200whp. Something is definitely wrong with either the ignition system or the virtual dyno settings.
Oh and to go back up a couple of posts to where somebody asked why I had the weight set at 2500. That's because I have a whole crap ton of stuff in the car that should add about 100lb roughly. I have the low-profile harbor freight jack in the trunk and my tool box which adds roughly 100lb. So I figured I'd up the weight to play it safe but it still doesn't make that much of a difference.
Don’t look at peak, that’s only half the story. Post the new graph. If you had a misfire, you’d see a dip in power and torque. Your issue sounds more like incorrect timing or some sort of clutch slip
It did actually add about 9.0 WHP at 6500 RPM when I changed the 13.0 timing at 184kpa to 15.5 of advance at 184kpa (after comparing a few logs to one another).
But the peak numbers/mid range stayed about the same. Perhaps going by that, I could rule out that the mid range wants more timing, but the top end likes it. Ganna see what I can do.
Can anybody suggest a spark map for me to try out today? If you promise to keep me within what you know for sure as a safe limit. Just a turbo base map that should be relatively safe for 91-93 octane yet still easily produce 190-200whp with before hitting the dyno; i would very much appreciate that! I use 93 octane.
I've always thought that you can make 200whp at conservative timing (pretty much base map) as long as you have your boost at around 11-12 psi. Heck I've tilted my spark map a fair amount more aggressive than the turbo base map and even tapered the boost as high as 16.5PSI without going near 180whp. @_@
Usually your rows go up by 2-4psi at a time. Yours are 4psi
Usually you go down 1 degree for every psi.
Your 100kpa row doesn't look terrible. Copy it to 128, 156, 184, 212, and 230. Then take 4, 8, 12, 16, and 18 degrees out of those rows respectively across the board. You'll want to taper the higher KPA rows up because you'll be negative and even though you'll never hit those high boost numbers at lower RPM, I hate having negative timing numbers on my map.
Get your car weighed, check mechanical timing, then check leak down and compression, we can't help much more until all of the above is done. And don't like, get back on the internet and start arguing with me, go out to the garage and start working on the car and test/fix/measure these things.
Usually N/A timing (100kpa) is around 28*.
Usually your rows go up by 2-4psi at a time. Yours are 4psi
Usually you go down 1 degree for every psi.
Your 100kpa row doesn't look terrible. Copy it to 128, 156, 184, 212, and 230. Then take 4, 8, 12, 16, and 18 degrees out of those rows respectively across the board. You'll want to taper the higher KPA rows up because you'll be negative and even though you'll never hit those high boost numbers at lower RPM, I hate having negative timing numbers on my map.
Thank you!! That's a nice guideline to use. Appreciate it
Originally Posted by curly
Get your car weighed, check mechanical timing, then check leak down and compression, we can't help much more until all of the above is done. And don't like, get back on the internet and start arguing with me, go out to the garage and start working on the car and test/fix/measure these things.
Compression is 195ish on 3 cylinders and 187ish on 1. I hooked a air compressor up to where the intercooler piping begins out of the turbo outlet and BOV/intercooler piping doesn't have boost leaks. There was some constant air escaping somewhere post-throttle body though. I was pretty sure that should be normal.
As for the mechanical timing, I used a timing light on fixed timing less than 3 weeks ago to rev the engine RPM high to make sure it wasn't a spark latency correction issue. I did 3 tests and they all looked to stay fixed at 10 degrees of advance. Tried my best to slowly increase the RPM's then Even bounced off rev limit during those tests.
The weight of the car isn't too important if you've ever added or removed a couple 100 lbs you'd find that it doesn't have a huge impact on the VD reading. So as long as you're in the ballpark of give or take 100-150lbs it's ganna be close enough. What's more important is making sure you do a pull on flat ground. And probably the aerodynamics effects of 3rd, 4th gear pulls. I keep everything as constant as I can. One time I did a 3rd gear pull down a mild hill and it read more of what I'd expect to see ~300whp lol
Only thing mechanical I think is left to check is make sure the timing belt isn't off by a tooth (maybe the crank pully top dead center mark is clocked roughly a tooth off too advanced or retarded in comparison to where the camshafts should be and if that's not it then idfk should I get LS coils @_@
It runs and sounds good that's the part that makes a lot of things seem out of the possibility
Yeah good point. I'm ganna try to check that today after lunch before I even do more spark advances. If it looks like it's off I'll try to take a picture for reference and post on here. If it seems to be off, I'm not ganna keep pushing the timing. Gotta fix that first!
In theory, if it is too advanced or retarded by being off mechanical timing, wouldn't the aftermath be something like a better mid range for a lesser top end or vise versa or would it mean that the base timing is not actually true. Or would it result in both of those things being the case lol It's a 95 1.8l with a CAS.
Usually N/A timing (100kpa) is around 28*.
Usually your rows go up by 2-4psi at a time. Yours are 4psi
Usually you go down 1 degree for every psi.
Your 100kpa row doesn't look terrible. Copy it to 128, 156, 184, 212, and 230. Then take 4, 8, 12, 16, and 18 degrees out of those rows respectively across the board. You'll want to taper the higher KPA rows up because you'll be negative and even though you'll never hit those high boost numbers at lower RPM, I hate having negative timing numbers on my map.
Honestly that looks like a BEAST table for a turbo base map lol
But this is the most I'll be willing to push it (If the mechanical timing looks right).
I just got done checking the mechanical timing. The #1 cylinder goes up to TDC, right about when the 2 timing marks on the crank pully lines up to the meter on the black plastic cover. Right when the camshaft sprockets hit their marks. I'm actually surprised it's better timed than I remember being able to get it at the time. I was struggling to get it as good as I would've liked when I remember back but it turned out good from the looks of it. It's not like it's backfiring or anything when the low kpa and cruise regions are of decent spark advance. Runs good.
All that's left really is to narrow it down to spark blow out (need to buy LS coils) or Ignition timing (about to go out and try out the more aggressive map and HOPE it doesn't bite me in the *** really bad bcuz the Miata is my only daily right now to get to and from work... stupid, yes)
At this point it can't be Virtual Dyno settings because so many people have looked over the datalog in their own VD and didn't find anything irregular.
Will report back in a couple hr on how the advance goes! Ganna drive to dunkin donuts & re-adjust the fuel table for it, grab a coffee and then go do several pulls at the normal place!
I finally actually looked at your log instead of just glancing at the tables you posted, is there a reason your MAP signal starts oscillating at 4800RPM? It starts as a slow ~2kpa oscillation, but from 5800 to the end of the pull you go up and down 10kpa 4 times. It starts right when your boost duty starts coming up to maintain boost at higher RPM. Have you done any tests to verify that you can't go above 0% DC without affecting boost? You're boost duty cycle map has you going from 0 to 21%DC in 1500rpm.
Yeah i just started using the EBC solenoid not very long ago. It was when i installed it, and started to use it that i started to try to tackle the reason why virtual dyno never shows nearly 200whp for me. Ever since i started to work on that problem, it's been my major focus and distracted me from really dialing in the EBC duty table anymore than when i first installed it. That oscillation is from the boost solenoid because it never did that when it's only on wastegate spring pressure.
When it's on WG, the boost slowly climbes to around 190kpa peak and doesn't oscillate. It's like a 10-11psi spring i think but i can adjust the preload to get it to function at between 8-14psi.
Do you have a log of it running on the wastegate? That'll help set the boost duty table up, along with finding what DC actually starts to produce more boost when the EBC is hooked up.
Did you see where he said he had a boost leak but dismissed it as being normal?
Originally Posted by NASSEX
I hooked a air compressor up to where the intercooler piping begins out of the turbo outlet and BOV/intercooler piping doesn't have boost leaks. There was some constant air escaping somewhere post-throttle body though. I was pretty sure that should be normal.
If you plug an air compressor and run compressed air through your intercooler piping, it's going to come hissing out of your PCV valve and crankcase vents.... What did you think I meant? "Oh, I heard air but no boost leaks, nope" You must of read like half of the sentence lol
Btw reporting back, the increased timing didn't help much today either. I used the more aggressive map and it added maybe 5whp to the top end (averaged). Mid range still the same as before for the most part. Still running boost at between 11-13psi constant
I noticed something 10mins ago tho if I change my final drive ratio on Virtual Dyno to 3.9:1 it starts to look more reasonable. o.O
But I should 1,010% have a 4.10:1 final drive. Torsen diff.
I am the 7th owner of the car tho that I am aware of. It's a early 95 1.8l. What's the odds that a previous owner changed the final drive gears when the car had lower mileage? Pretty slim meh
I'm coming to the conclusion tonight that I just haven't been plotting accurate enough VD logs. If I get time tomorrow, I want to try and find a better suited road. Try not to turn or wiggle the steering wheel at all, and see if I can plot something better. Will report back in 1-2 days.
I'm interested to hear your theory as to why air coming out of your PCV while pressure testing your intercooler piping (preferably to at least 20psi to be on the safe side) is normal.
Regarding the gearing, you have an ECU that can accurately tell you what RPM you're at. I would just GPS your speed and compare your RPMs to what they are to what they are supposed to be. 4.1 is 3400ish @ 70 and 3.9 is 3250ish @ 70.
I'm interested to hear your theory as to why air coming out of your PCV while pressure testing your intercooler piping (preferably to at least 20psi to be on the safe side) is normal.
I'm interested to hear your theory as to why air coming out of your PCV while pressure testing your intercooler piping (preferably to at least 20psi to be on the safe side) is normal.
Only time you'd expect it is if the hotside rocker vent is plumbed into the intake somewhere, like the OEM system.
07-14-2019, 10:13 AM
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