:giggle:
Relax.

No need to get your panties in a bunch.
If I hear a good explanation with proof of it being beneficial and not dangerous I might change my mind..

Oh I'm relaxed, I just get annoyed when people are TRYING to be a dick.

A tip... don't mention one engine... and then link to another :p

Cost to power ratio of NA is just painful... especially in these old engines :P. Once again making me happy that I'm putting a better motor in my car :)

Ya I know... lol I didn't realize that until after I posted. But it gives you an idea on how much of a perfectionist he is.

The whole NA vs. Turbo thing will never die, and that's not what this thread was about. But if you every have a chance to ride in a 180+whp N/A Miata... do it. It's a completly different feel from a turbo car, and one of the reasons I decided to go Rotrex instead of turbo.

He isn't doing anything that a normal good motor builder should do honestly. I see lots of measuring and such, but its all normal stuff.

I had an almost 200whp NA car... I like my turbo car just fine. Better powerband than I've seen from the charts on those miata motors also... the bonus of it being a Honda :).

I think that would be retarded to remove oil squirters. For the reasons mentioned above. You go ahead and tear them out though. This seems to be mentioned alot on m.net. Which also makes me think it to be stupid.

Ya hondas don't count...lol

And yes, he is "just another engine builder" but the reason I am using him is I know he has lots of experience with the engine and is very precise and I know it will be done right the first time :D. I'm not having a full build done, just bottom end and a valve/spring job. I am doing the rest.

Power loss due to pumping losses from the oil squirters? That's got to be some of the craziest BS I've heard, unless I'm completely missing something. If you remove the oil squirters, your oil pressure should be increased. An increase in oil pressure means that the engine is working harder to pump that oil through the engine. This would translate to less wheel power available if you *removed* the oil squirters.

But maybe I'm missing something?

Simplest thing to do then... is if you trust his build knowledge... just defer to him. Not the peanut gallery here.

I've seen lots of arguments over the years to running them and not (on forged piston motors). Everyone had their own soapbox... no real data.

TRYING implies that I didn't succeed:giggle:

Comparison of the motor in question versus my stock block 1.6 with a 57trim t3/t04e. I had roughly half the $$$ into my old setup.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_tMYIeupe-9Q/S8...rbo_vs_ITB.jpg

Ouch.

For the record though, I can't rip on that car. It gets the JayL stamp of approval for being bad as fuck. I'm simply comparing output.

Yes, that is true :D... but that's just how you roll.
Exactly. There's a lot of "I don't think" on here. But so far no one who actually builds motors has chimed in. Which was the purpose of this thread. Not to get personal opinions.

I've built motors... but you just won't hear anything beyond opinions and hearsay.

Yes, tis true. Didn't know you built motors...

Building them does not mean I'm a shop and pro builder ;) But yah, have built a few over the years.

If having oil squirters makes your oil hotter then they are doing their job by removing heat from the piston. Removing heat from the piston is far more important for reducing detonation in a forced induction engine than in a naturally aspirated one.

In a naturally aspirated engine that is sucking wind and fighting it's builder for every fraction of a horsepower I can see where a builder would want to lighten the fractions of ounces of oil present on the bottoms of the pistons or clinging to the cylinder walls needing to be removed by the oil control rings. But we are not those people. We have the benefit of technological advances made in the 1940s to force more air mass into our engines to overcome inefficiencies in engine design.

We have had enough threads regarding the uneven cooling and detonation issues in our engines to cause me not to desire the removal of items that may be beneficial to the cooling of my pistons when given the choice. Why tempt fate and take the chance? Is there a proven benefit that makes it equivalent or greater than the risk?

Did Mazda add unnecessary parts into our engines because they enjoy throwing away money? Aren't those longevity enhancing parts even more necessary when you demand more than twice the intended output from the same engine?

How many horsepower are you supposedly gaining from rolling the dice with your engine? One horsepower? One quarter horsepower? Why would that be worthwhile?

But it seems from your comments to other skeptics that you have made up your mind, so enjoy your squirterless engine and let us know how that works out.

Well said sir.

Apparently we are not allowed to question someone doing something illogical due to them being a "top notch builder"
Next that builder will tell us he doesn't use intercoolers due to the weight gain and operating at 200* AIT's is perfectly "ok";)

Wait is Tom building his engine?

Me thinks you got a hard on for this dude.