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Old 09-16-2010, 02:33 PM   #1
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Default thoughts on removing oil injectors?

I am having an engine built by Ocean @ Chikara right now and he suggested removing the oil injectors and that he does this on nearly every build he does. I am going FI (Rotrex) and just wanted a second opinion or some input. I trust him with basically anything Miata related but he builds a lot of N/A engines where it would make sense to remove but what about an FI engine? He said his 1.9L N/A is running extremely high cyl head and egt temps (higher than most FI engines, the way he tuned it) and said if his car is fine mine will be as well.

Any thoughts?
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Old 09-16-2010, 02:38 PM   #2
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Why would you want to INTENTIONALLY remove something that makes your car run safer and cooler helping it stay safe?
Sounds stupid to me.
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Old 09-16-2010, 02:39 PM   #3
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That's kind of what I'm asking. But thanks for the input! :P

Remember that there are many boosted engines out there that do not have oil injectors.
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Old 09-16-2010, 02:46 PM   #4
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subscribed, I want to hear this
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Old 09-16-2010, 02:51 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by falcon View Post

Remember that there are many boosted engines out there that do not have oil injectors.
Yes but also remember that many OEM turbocharged cars use this and it is specifically designed to aid cars in running safer and not melting stuff or detonating or running exessively hot.

I want to hear what he claims woudl be the BENEFIT of removing them.
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Old 09-16-2010, 02:53 PM   #6
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He said the benefit is lower oil temps and less fuel dilution in the oil. Do you know who Ocean is?
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Old 09-16-2010, 02:53 PM   #7
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one of the main points of oil is for cooling the internals! oil squirters = better cooling, not sure why you'd remove them.
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Old 09-16-2010, 02:54 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by falcon View Post
He said the benefit is lower oil temps and less fuel dilution in the oil. Do you know who Ocean is?
And hotter detonating pistons! Fun times
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Old 09-16-2010, 02:54 PM   #9
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if you want cooler oil, get an oil cooler. do you know who BRAINEACK is?
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Old 09-16-2010, 02:54 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by falcon View Post
I am having an engine built by Ocean @ Chikara right now and he suggested removing the oil injectors and that he does this on nearly every build he does. I am going FI (Rotrex) and just wanted a second opinion or some input. I trust him with basically anything Miata related but he builds a lot of N/A engines where it would make sense to remove but what about an FI engine? He said his 1.9L N/A is running extremely high cyl head and egt temps (higher than most FI engines, the way he tuned it) and said if his car is fine mine will be as well.

Any thoughts?
lol i call bs on his NA stroker seeing more severe use than an FI motor he would have to be spining 8k rpms and running some pretty extreme tunning. That being said the thermal laod on a boosted motor is always going to be higher than, on an NA motor for any given hp. Given this the slight cooling and wristpin oiling etc done by the squirters is a real boon to longevity in your car, unless they are totally fubard and you can not score any replacements i would 100% keep them. FWIW his 1.9L at best has 200-220 hp your 1.8 or 1.6 puts that down with less rpms and about 8-12 psi depending on the effeceincy of the system. If you ever decide to bump the boost up on your motor wich you know you will then 15+ psi will put you in a whole nother world of usage compared to him.
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Old 09-16-2010, 02:56 PM   #11
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His engine sees 9000RPM's and has 2000* EGT's.
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Old 09-16-2010, 03:06 PM   #12
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FM mentions on their site that their pistons are designed to be able to remove the oil squirters too.... apparently it is a common thing.... that was all that i could find out though.

Maybe call FM and ask them why you would do it, and what their pistons do to offer the ability to remove them.

Im not an FM part *****, but i noticed this when flipping through their catalog.
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Old 09-16-2010, 03:08 PM   #13
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oil cooler = more cooling of oil than removing the squirters could ever imagine to achieve.

Plus as brainey said: isn't the whole POINT of oil to COOL the engine by transfering its heat into itself?
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Old 09-16-2010, 03:09 PM   #14
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If you have forged pistons, you will be fine if you remove them. The mitsubishi 4g63-T came with oil squirters from the factory, however many rebuilders omit them when building motors with forged bottom ends with no negative side effects. This also allows for the use of non-turbo cores (no oil squirters) for building new motors as factory turbo motors can sometimes be hard to find for a decent price depending on where you are.

*EDIT* I'm not saying you SHOULD remove them, I'm just relaying what I've seen on other platforms.
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Old 09-16-2010, 03:12 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
I think whereas he could spin to 9k and get 1600* egt's.
And he chooses to run more dangerous.

Sounds kinda dumb to me
Power is lost to the oil being tossed up there though. With an NA engine... he wants/needs every bit he can get. Turbo... just add another 1psi.
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Old 09-16-2010, 03:14 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
I think whereas he could spin to 9k and get 1600* egt's.
And he chooses to run more dangerous.

Sounds kinda dumb to me
You're negativity is kind of irritating me. Do some research on who this guy is, and then tell me he is dumb after. He chooses to run "dangerous" that's fine. AFAIK he also has build the highest HP 1.9L N/A in N. America just chooses not to flog it all over the internet.

Here, have a read.

http://clubroadster.net/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=18582
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Old 09-16-2010, 03:15 PM   #17
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Here is the paragraph where FM talks about not needing Oil Squirters.

Quote:
The skirts are given a moly coating for low friction, and there`s a ceramic coating on top of the piston to protect it from the heat of high power. This keeps the heat in the combustion chamber where it makes horses, not in the oil where it makes the baby dinosaurs cry. We also designed them to run without the factory oil squirters, which gives higher oil pressure, lower oil consumption and higher power levels due to a drop in pumping losses.
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Old 09-16-2010, 03:16 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_Ciesielski View Post
If you have forged pistons, you will be fine if you remove them. The mitsubishi 4g63-T came with oil squirters from the factory, however many rebuilders omit them when building motors with forged bottom ends with no negative side effects. This also allows for the use of non-turbo cores (no oil squirters) for building new motors as factory turbo motors can sometimes be hard to find for a decent price depending on where you are.

*EDIT* I'm not saying you SHOULD remove them, I'm just relaying what I've seen on other platforms.
Ya thanks Jeff... that's kind of what I've come across thus far researching. I think I'm just going to do what he says. I did email FM and am waiting for a response. Based on the whole break in process he is making me do, to make sure the rings seat correctly and everything is running right I'll take his word that they can come out. If anything negative happens because of it, I have no doubt in my mind he would make it right.
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Old 09-16-2010, 03:17 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by falcon View Post
You're negativity is kind of irritating me. Do some research on who this guy is, and then tell me he is dumb after. He chooses to run "dangerous" that's fine. AFAIK he also has build the highest HP 1.9L N/A in N. America just chooses not to flog it all over the internet.

Here, have a read.

http://clubroadster.net/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=18582
Wooo.... 150whp from a 1.9l!!! God our motors suck. I wonder what his total build cost was... more than a greddy kit I bet
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Old 09-16-2010, 03:18 PM   #20
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That's not a 1.9L, that's a 1.7L . The 1.9L is in his personal car and is running 13:1 compression pistons. And that 150whp is on a dynapack.
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