Timing Belt Troubleshooting...Help? - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Engine Performance This section is for discussion on all engine building related questions.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-06-2010, 09:32 AM   #1
I'm Miserable!
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Fort Bragg, NC
Posts: 189
Total Cats: 0
Default Timing Belt Troubleshooting...Help?

Started in on my 3rd timing belt job on my homebrew turbo 94, went and got a full front timing cover gasket set, and cam seals. I've done quite a few timing belt jobs in my day on interference and non-interference engines and 2 already on this particular car. The gasket/seal installs went smooth as could be, replaced the timing belt.

No start...loud pop.

I get back out double check my plug wires/firing order...rotate the crank by hand 2 revolutions and all 3 timing marks are on the dot! Car still wont start...I cant figure out what it is to save my life, it MUST be something in the timing, there are no other factors that I have altered/changed (megasquirt cranking settings, ignition timing).

I checked for TDC on the compression stroke, lined up the crank timing notch, took the cam gears off and rotated the cams to have the dowels on the cams at the top, then placed the cam gears on with the appropriate letters facing up as well to match the dowels. (E on the left cam, I on the right cam). Rotated the cams to match the timing marks on the plate and the crank to match the notch, slipped the timing belt on and tightened, and still NO START...

Anything I am missing as far as timing this thing?!?! help please? I can take pictures of everything if need be. Never had this problem before.

Last edited by BoostedTrixx; 10-06-2010 at 10:16 PM.
BoostedTrixx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2010, 09:37 AM   #2
I'm Miserable!
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Fort Bragg, NC
Posts: 189
Total Cats: 0
Default

I even have AllData (commercial repair manual program for computer), and double checked on there for firing order, and that I had the correct timing marks and procedure. Still coming up with fail.
BoostedTrixx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2010, 09:51 AM   #3
AFM Crusader
iTrader: (18)
 
olderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Wayne, NJ
Posts: 4,438
Total Cats: 84
Default

You removed the cam gears to replace the seals. Check to see that the pins in the ends of the cams relate to the marks on the cam gears correctly.
olderguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2010, 09:55 AM   #4
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,854
Total Cats: 1,788
Default

sounds like you are 180 out... sure you have the cams pointed in teh right direction?
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2010, 11:01 AM   #5
I'm Miserable!
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Fort Bragg, NC
Posts: 189
Total Cats: 0
Default

Would they still show up right on point after 2 revolutions of the crank? I can spin it over and they all 3 points match up. 180 on the crank or the cams? I took the cam gears off to replace the cam seals, and when I reinstalled I turned the cams so that the dowel pins were pointed up (at the top) and did the same with the cam gears too I have the "I" pointing up on the right side and the "e" pointing up on the left side when I reinstalled, I then turned them to meet the timing marks.

A good way to double check if I'm 180 out?
BoostedTrixx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2010, 11:02 AM   #6
I'm Miserable!
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Fort Bragg, NC
Posts: 189
Total Cats: 0
Default

Anybody know why the exhaust cam lines up with I on I but the intake lines up on the e's?
BoostedTrixx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2010, 11:25 AM   #7
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,854
Total Cats: 1,788
Default

that's the way it should be. it's because the exhaust cycle is about to start and intake cycle just ended or something.

the first lobe on your cams so both be horizontal at this position and facing outward.


with #1 at TDC, this is how everything should look:





Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2010, 12:22 PM   #8
AFM Crusader
iTrader: (18)
 
olderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Wayne, NJ
Posts: 4,438
Total Cats: 84
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoostedTrixx View Post
Would they still show up right on point after 2 revolutions of the crank? I can spin it over and they all 3 points match up. 180 on the crank or the cams? I took the cam gears off to replace the cam seals, and when I reinstalled I turned the cams so that the dowel pins were pointed up (at the top) and did the same with the cam gears too I have the "I" pointing up on the right side and the "e" pointing up on the left side when I reinstalled, I then turned them to meet the timing marks.

A good way to double check if I'm 180 out?
Methinks you should have had the "I" pointing up on the intake or left side and the "E" pointing up on the exhaust or right side when the pins were in the up position.
olderguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2010, 12:37 PM   #9
Senior Member
iTrader: (10)
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Oakdale, CA
Posts: 1,353
Total Cats: 65
Default

brains pictures show it best for the markings on the cams and the notch in the crank pulley, it sounds 180 out to me also..good luck. Did you put it all back together with all the covers and what not and now have to tear it back apart?
RyanRaduechel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2010, 08:08 PM   #10
I'm Miserable!
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Fort Bragg, NC
Posts: 189
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
that's the way it should be. it's because the exhaust cycle is about to start and intake cycle just ended or something.

the first lobe on your cams so both be horizontal at this position and facing outward.


with #1 at TDC, this is how everything should look:







Heres what I've got, I can see where you say possibly 180 out. Ive still got the water pump pulley on at the moment cause I just reassmbled it all so I wouldnt be able to take a pic of the crank pulley in line, but with the crank lined up and the cam timing marks lined up, this is what I have and where the first lobes are.

Name:  photo.jpg
Views: 34
Size:  94.6 KB

Name:  photo1.jpg
Views: 8
Size:  110.1 KB
BoostedTrixx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2010, 09:05 PM   #11
AFM Crusader
iTrader: (18)
 
olderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Wayne, NJ
Posts: 4,438
Total Cats: 84
Default

Looks like the cam gears were mis-mounted on the cams
olderguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2010, 09:23 PM   #12
mkturbo.com
iTrader: (24)
 
shuiend's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Charleston SC
Posts: 13,775
Total Cats: 1,106
Default

If those pictures are at TDC then yes you cam gears are off. Take off each cam gear. Put knock pin pointing up. Reinstall cam gears with the "I" pointing up on intake side, and "E" pointing up on exhaust side.
shuiend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2010, 09:58 PM   #13
I'm Miserable!
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Fort Bragg, NC
Posts: 189
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shuiend View Post
If those pictures are at TDC then yes you cam gears are off. Take off each cam gear. Put knock pin pointing up. Reinstall cam gears with the "I" pointing up on intake side, and "E" pointing up on exhaust side.
Did exactly this and she fired right up!

The mistake was when I went to take the cam gears off I didnt mark the spots on the belt and cam gear before I loosened it (rushing **** as usual), and the exhaust cam gear fell off before I marked it.

Thanks for all the info/tips/pointers guys...this thread has some useful pictures as far as where the lobes on the cams should be pointing in relation with the "I" and "E" on the gears. Hopefully somebody else can reference this info if need be someday.
BoostedTrixx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2010, 10:01 PM   #14
mkturbo.com
iTrader: (24)
 
shuiend's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Charleston SC
Posts: 13,775
Total Cats: 1,106
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoostedTrixx View Post
Did exactly this and she fired right up!

The mistake was when I went to take the cam gears off I didnt mark the spots on the belt and cam gear before I loosened it (rushing **** as usual), and the exhaust cam gear fell off before I marked it.

Thanks for all the info/tips/pointers guys...this thread has some useful pictures as far as where the lobes on the cams should be pointing in relation with the "I" and "E" on the gears. Hopefully somebody else can reference this info if need be someday.
Glad that it is fixed.
shuiend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2010, 10:54 PM   #15
I'm Miserable!
iTrader: (11)
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Texas, 'Murica
Posts: 2,505
Total Cats: 7
Default

LOL a quick easy check i have always found to work, is to make sure all the pins are at 12 o'clock.
chicksdigmiatas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2010, 02:23 AM   #16
Senior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Northeastern CT
Posts: 547
Total Cats: 2
Default

i screwed this up my first timing belt job as well, lol. of course this was combined with a first time MS install, complete with no pullup resistor on the CAS input (i didnt build it..). and i ended up burning up both a battery and a starter before i figured both issues out. whoops
therieldeal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2010, 09:47 PM   #17
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Does CAS position usually change with the timing belt instal? I've been chasing a problem for two days now with the synchronization and my timing light is dead so I can't check spark angle. "All pins are pointed up" and the car is still rough. The last possibility is damaged spark plug wires.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2010, 10:22 PM   #18
mkturbo.com
iTrader: (24)
 
shuiend's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Charleston SC
Posts: 13,775
Total Cats: 1,106
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
Does CAS position usually change with the timing belt instal? I've been chasing a problem for two days now with the synchronization and my timing light is dead so I can't check spark angle. "All pins are pointed up" and the car is still rough. The last possibility is damaged spark plug wires.
I do not think that the CAS positions change with a timing belt install. As long as you did no remove the CAS it should still be good.
shuiend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2010, 10:45 PM   #19
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Damn, something is screwed up.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2010, 10:46 PM   #20
mkturbo.com
iTrader: (24)
 
shuiend's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Charleston SC
Posts: 13,775
Total Cats: 1,106
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
Damn, something is screwed up.
This the track car or the DD? Can you give more details of how it is running rough?
shuiend is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
WTB MP62 (Hotside) (NB2) Rick02R WTB 3 01-03-2016 08:18 PM
Expected intake temps on the track? tazswing Race Prep 20 10-03-2015 12:04 PM
Time to start learning and play with tuning The Gleas MEGAsquirt 3 10-01-2015 10:30 AM
Bad head gasket or ? shooterschmidty Engine Performance 8 09-30-2015 11:28 PM
NA Seat Sliders and Seat Belt Receivers skipstr Miata parts for sale/trade 2 09-28-2015 11:53 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:16 PM.