Gents,

Nigel from Flow Force sent me a new set of injectors to try. I'll send him more beer money. They're 661s and I'm currently running the earlier 621s. Will I need tuning time on a dyno or can I just change the injector size in Tuner Studio?

Thanks,

 

Should be just that.

 

That will get you mostly there. Req'd fuel and any change in dead time.

Have you. Brought your FW up to date?

 

Interesting question. I was messing with the idle since I had read those settings don't carry over when upgrading from 1.2.X when the problem recurred. Should I do the update and then the injectors? That was not my plan.

Attached is a pic of my injector settings. I did not set up the tune when I installed the Rotrex. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

 

I don't care a lot about the order. I'm just saying that you are doing a lot of work that will have to be re-done when you upgrade. That is why I say upgrade first.

 

Can I do it without starting the car? I know that sounds dumb, but we're in a blizzard right now. We've already had eight inches, maybe more, and it's still snowing. I'm not opening up the garage to run the engine.

 

Yes.

 

I would highly suggest upgrading to 1.4.1 before you keep diagnosing things. There are a ton of changes, and a lot of your current settings will need to be updated. Fuel/Spark tables should stay the same, but a ton of the small things will need to be messed with.

Yes you can upgrade to the newer firmware without turning on the car. You will need to unhook the injectors and coil pack, but the car just needs power. This is the link to the thread about upgrading firmware.

 

Roger that. I'm convinced. The new injectors are here. I want to make the swap, put power on to spin up the fuel pump and check for leaks, then work the firmware update.

That is the first I've heard about unhooking the injectors, too.

 

Reverant has unequivocally stated that the MS3-Basic does not need the coils disconnected during a FW upgrade. See #8

 

So have the dev's for MS for a while. I still don't trust it. Old habits are hard to break. Not worth possibly killing coils over something that takes a minute to unplug.

 

Gents,

I never got an answer to my previous query. Do I need to unhook the injectors when doing a firmware update? If so, what's the best way?

Thanks,

 

That was the first I ever heard of disconnecting signals to injectors. I suppose the logic is the possibility of them pulling open and dumping fuel (assuming pump is on also). I've never done anything to prevent fuel flow when updating FW in my MS3-Basic.

As to your IAC disconnect question in the other thread, I have no idea what you are talking about.

 

Gents,

I have the new Force Flow injectors installed that Nigel sent me, and updated to the 1.4.1 firmware. She idled fine in the driveway yesterday, so I took her for a ride around town today after work. Did some easy 2nd and 3rd gear pulls, and generally drove around for about half an hour. I decided I'd take her to work tomorrow and do some highway driving. I headed home and had an opportunity to get into WOT. She got above about 6000 rpm, stumbled badly and backfired. The check engine light came on. I slowed down and pushed in the clutch. The idle rpms were up around two grand. They slowly dropped to normal. Otherwise the car was idling/running fine afterwards.

I was not expecting problems, so I was not data logging. I went around again and set up logging. The same thing happened. The logs are attached.

There were no issues pulling through the gears WITHOUT going into WOT.

I don't think this is related to my previous issue. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

look at the idle PWM log. CL didn't activate and therefore the idle valve never closed (you have it always staying open in your tune), and thus the idle never went down until it was finally triggered at the 168sec mark.


in your tune max decel load% is 25. you never quite passed 25kPa when you came back to idle therefore it never passed the parameters needed to go back into CL idle.

i would tune the initial duties table, and tune that value so it makes sense to where your motor typical idles -- you want it just a few kPa below the normal idle load, which looks like maybe 32kPa on your car, so try 28.

your tune is also using a range of 18-80% pwm for the idle valve, was that tuned? seems like a larger swing than i see on most installs.

 

I brought that quote from the idle adjustment thread. Just to clarify, you saw that in the log from post #134 in this thread? That is a new problem. Last time I had something like that it was fixed by replacing the crank position sensor with a new OEM unit AND turning off Noise Filtering. The "new" OEM sensor is in there, although it has a few thousand miles on it, and Noise Filtering is Off. Jeez.

It doesn't seem the same as before, however. This is much more violent. And that was with a different bottom end, so different toothed wheel, crank pulley, etc...

Could flashing in the firmware updates have done something to the crank position sensor?

Thanks,

 

Pretty sure from that msg. Here is screen capture:



Shows up in the high speed log you took also, assuming taken at the same time.

I'm no expert on the filtering, but I have to have mine on, and I have my Global Delay set to 2. Also, my table is 200RPM / 400uS: 500 / 200: 2500 / 40: 7500 / 13. This has worked well with both the stock trigger, and the 36-2. Only "Noise Filter Enabled" is on. Rest are all off.

Not saying this will fix your sync loss, just saying what cured mine.