Which turbo would best work for what I want to gain?
03-12-2011, 06:47 PM
#41
If you have questions about Holset turbos then ask me
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03-12-2011, 06:59 PM
#43
I was referring to the forum nutswinger.
2871 would be what I would run(if I was sticking with a T2 foot print), just because I KNOW I would get tired of anything less than 300whp.
If you shop around you can find them for right under a grand, it's a good deal for a great turbo and you will have plenty of head room.
2871 would be what I would run(if I was sticking with a T2 foot print), just because I KNOW I would get tired of anything less than 300whp.
If you shop around you can find them for right under a grand, it's a good deal for a great turbo and you will have plenty of head room.
What am I nutswinging off?
Then you go and suggest the same thing I did?
Ok. That makes sense
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03-12-2011, 07:16 PM
#44
They are turbos that primarily used for diesel truck motors and generators. They are popular in Europe and are starting to become more commonly used over on our turf.
The ones that are considered "car friendly" are the T3 foot print turbos. Most miata owners use T2 for the availability of off the shelf parts.
Makes perfect sense. OP stated he wanted 280whp with the fastest spool possible. He didn't state anything about headroom until recently.
But, it really comes down to how vague the original question asked really was. Now that we know he has a possibility of wanting around 350hp in the future, the 2871 becomes the obvious choice.
The ones that are considered "car friendly" are the T3 foot print turbos. Most miata owners use T2 for the availability of off the shelf parts.
But, it really comes down to how vague the original question asked really was. Now that we know he has a possibility of wanting around 350hp in the future, the 2871 becomes the obvious choice.
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03-12-2011, 07:42 PM
#45
Alrighty. Well, from everything I am seeing, it really comes down mostly to a few things...
1.) Which is more important to me? Making my minimum HP goal, or having a SLIGHTLY earlier spool up time (from all of the spool threads/comparos I saw, the 2860s and 2871s are only losing 300-500 rpm of spool to the 2560s)
2.) Whether I am willing to completely replace everything that I already have (that works fine, but perhaps not optimally, being an FM log manifold and FM downpipe) if necessary to reach my HP goals... Which doing such could drop the spool time on a 2860 or 2871 (or yes even the BW 6258 rated at ~225-400hp)
3.) Whether I am at a level that I could GET the absolute maximum out of a 2560 in order to reach my goals (I did state I am a bit new to this, but trying to learn)
4.) Whether or not I think that I might want some headroom in the future to increase it a bit without having to start over again...
So, I'll have to figure out those things for certain, but I am definitely of a mind right now that I would rather find myself nicely in the middle of, or even closer to the bottom of a compressor map than I would pushed up against the top unable to accomplish my goal without having to replace a large portion of my setup.
All of that puts me back to considering between the GT2860RS, the GT2871R, and the BW EFL 6258 (would really love to see a spool chart or result from somebody with one, especially looking at that compressor map that actually starts at almost the same place as a 2560). Thank you for all of your advice and education though.
1.) Which is more important to me? Making my minimum HP goal, or having a SLIGHTLY earlier spool up time (from all of the spool threads/comparos I saw, the 2860s and 2871s are only losing 300-500 rpm of spool to the 2560s)
2.) Whether I am willing to completely replace everything that I already have (that works fine, but perhaps not optimally, being an FM log manifold and FM downpipe) if necessary to reach my HP goals... Which doing such could drop the spool time on a 2860 or 2871 (or yes even the BW 6258 rated at ~225-400hp)
3.) Whether I am at a level that I could GET the absolute maximum out of a 2560 in order to reach my goals (I did state I am a bit new to this, but trying to learn)
4.) Whether or not I think that I might want some headroom in the future to increase it a bit without having to start over again...
So, I'll have to figure out those things for certain, but I am definitely of a mind right now that I would rather find myself nicely in the middle of, or even closer to the bottom of a compressor map than I would pushed up against the top unable to accomplish my goal without having to replace a large portion of my setup.
All of that puts me back to considering between the GT2860RS, the GT2871R, and the BW EFL 6258 (would really love to see a spool chart or result from somebody with one, especially looking at that compressor map that actually starts at almost the same place as a 2560). Thank you for all of your advice and education though.
Paul made 304rwhp at 14psi, 311 at 17. This tells you with his setup the 2560 wasn't good for much more than 300. 7hp for 3psi is not where you want to be on a turbo (unless you are turboing a 5hp briggs). Paul's setup was Absurdflow centered/low, 99 head on 94 block, old style begi cast intake mani, 70mm mustang TB, 3" exhaust w/cat & resonator, Megasquirt, 93 octane, dynojet, etc.
I'd love to see 320rwhp out of a 2560 on pump gas but I will guess it is impossible without more rpm and E85 perhaps.
I'd love to see 320rwhp out of a 2560 on pump gas but I will guess it is impossible without more rpm and E85 perhaps.
Given, I have NOT looked at the compressor maps and may be grossly oversimplifying, what's wrong with the EFR 6255? It's a T25 flange single scroll 0.64 A/R turbine housing, with a 62mm ~64 trim (49.5mm inducer) compressor wheel and a 55mm turbine compared to the 2560 which is of course a 60mm CW (60 trim) and a 53mm turbine in a 0.64 A/R housing. It's also just a way more baller turbo, lightweight Gamma TiAl turbine and ceramic bearings, seems like it'd work well?
edit- for some reason I was thinking the GT28 turbine was 58mm (probably from all the furious EFR 6258 masturbation...) but it's actually 53.9mm... which means instead of it being a nice "midpoint" maybe the 55mm turbine is a little big? the GT30 turbine is 60mm just for reference...
edit- for some reason I was thinking the GT28 turbine was 58mm (probably from all the furious EFR 6258 masturbation...) but it's actually 53.9mm... which means instead of it being a nice "midpoint" maybe the 55mm turbine is a little big? the GT30 turbine is 60mm just for reference...
Mleh, money/time is trivial to real miata man haha.
Nagase was saying the 6255 was useless though and had no better response than the 6258. I just dont understand why? The 2560 and 2860 have the same size compressor wheels and the 2560 turbine is only .9mm smaller than the 2860 and apparently it's significantly more responsive.
edit- although maybe he was referencing the 0.92 a/r twin scroll 58mm housing as opposed to the 0.64/0.65 a/r single scroll 58mm housing? even so, I just can't see, may be blinded by ignorance?, there not being a significant increase in response using the 0.64/0.65 a/r 55mm setup
Nagase was saying the 6255 was useless though and had no better response than the 6258. I just dont understand why? The 2560 and 2860 have the same size compressor wheels and the 2560 turbine is only .9mm smaller than the 2860 and apparently it's significantly more responsive.
edit- although maybe he was referencing the 0.92 a/r twin scroll 58mm housing as opposed to the 0.64/0.65 a/r single scroll 58mm housing? even so, I just can't see, may be blinded by ignorance?, there not being a significant increase in response using the 0.64/0.65 a/r 55mm setup
THANK YOU
Pretty much what I was trying to say before little bitch started crying and posting paragraphs trying to prove his false claims.
In the end, everyone knows a 2560 is a mid 200 whp turbo able to hit 300 at damn near peak pressure/efficiency and not much more can be pushed out of it.
Nagase, I didn't edit jack **** you little bitch, go cry/nutswing elsewhere. If you can't find where you said "easy", I quoted it for you. Wipe the *** out of your eyes and take a look.
Bottom line: the 2560 is a GREAT turbo as many here have experienced first hand. It does have great response and is well matched for a BP looking for mid 200's power level, even a bit more. What its NOT is a 300whp turbo, and everyone here besides *********** already knows that.
Pretty much what I was trying to say before little bitch started crying and posting paragraphs trying to prove his false claims.
In the end, everyone knows a 2560 is a mid 200 whp turbo able to hit 300 at damn near peak pressure/efficiency and not much more can be pushed out of it.
Nagase, I didn't edit jack **** you little bitch, go cry/nutswing elsewhere. If you can't find where you said "easy", I quoted it for you. Wipe the *** out of your eyes and take a look.
Bottom line: the 2560 is a GREAT turbo as many here have experienced first hand. It does have great response and is well matched for a BP looking for mid 200's power level, even a bit more. What its NOT is a 300whp turbo, and everyone here besides *********** already knows that.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Genui...item230e516c80
Less than 700 bucks and will get you to 280whp easy *With the proper supporting accessories*
Spool characteristics can be found all over this forum. It is a VERY popular turbo.
Less than 700 bucks and will get you to 280whp easy *With the proper supporting accessories*
Spool characteristics can be found all over this forum. It is a VERY popular turbo.
They are turbos that primarily used for diesel truck motors and generators. They are popular in Europe and are starting to become more commonly used over on our turf.
The ones that are considered "car friendly" are the T3 foot print turbos. Most miata owners use T2 for the availability of off the shelf parts.
Makes perfect sense. OP stated he wanted 280whp with the fastest spool possible. He didn't state anything about headroom until recently.
But, it really comes down to how vague the original question asked really was. Now that we know he has a possibility of wanting around 350hp in the future, the 2871 becomes the obvious choice.
The ones that are considered "car friendly" are the T3 foot print turbos. Most miata owners use T2 for the availability of off the shelf parts.
Makes perfect sense. OP stated he wanted 280whp with the fastest spool possible. He didn't state anything about headroom until recently.
But, it really comes down to how vague the original question asked really was. Now that we know he has a possibility of wanting around 350hp in the future, the 2871 becomes the obvious choice.
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03-12-2011, 07:43 PM
#46
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Join Date: Aug 2009
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I must say from what i have found EVOIII 16G was the best bang for buck turbo. I have run the gt2560r its a good turbo but i honestly think the EVOIII is best for a DD car. I made 272 on 12psi then i went build motor and made 336whp on 18psi then went 20psi and made 350whp. Went i would be going down the highway i would have a good solid 8-10psi of boost with just 10-15% throttle. Spool was great for the power the turbo made with a price that cant be beat.
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03-12-2011, 07:53 PM
#47
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Here is a turbo to back my findings and a link so you can see.
solid line is TQ and the other is HP
https://www.miataturbo.net/dynos-timesheets-21/18psi-336whp-20psi-349whp-47931/
solid line is TQ and the other is HP
https://www.miataturbo.net/dynos-timesheets-21/18psi-336whp-20psi-349whp-47931/
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03-12-2011, 08:52 PM
#49
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Join Date: Jul 2005
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To the OP:
Due to your altitude, you will be running a higher pressure ratio than sea level pukes for the same target boost/power. The minimum turbo for you would be a GT2860RS. The 2560 will be out of its sweet spot at your altitude at 280 whp.
BTW "only 300-500 RPM loss of spool" is a very significant difference in FEEL on the street.
If you are honest about your power goals, then a good rule of thumb for a STREET car is the SMALLEST turbo that meets that goal. If it will spend a lot of time at the track, (at that altitude), you may want a step bigger.
Be realistic about how much street vs track time the car will see. A responsive turbo on the street that makes boost at low RPM, makes for sweet driving machine.
Due to your altitude, you will be running a higher pressure ratio than sea level pukes for the same target boost/power. The minimum turbo for you would be a GT2860RS. The 2560 will be out of its sweet spot at your altitude at 280 whp.
BTW "only 300-500 RPM loss of spool" is a very significant difference in FEEL on the street.
If you are honest about your power goals, then a good rule of thumb for a STREET car is the SMALLEST turbo that meets that goal. If it will spend a lot of time at the track, (at that altitude), you may want a step bigger.
Be realistic about how much street vs track time the car will see. A responsive turbo on the street that makes boost at low RPM, makes for sweet driving machine.
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03-12-2011, 09:40 PM
#50
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Join Date: Jul 2008
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I
Full Race will hopefully be releasing this data soon, but they've dynoed the entire B1 series of turbos on a 1.8 Miata... and that was part of the reason they dropped the 6255. There's nothing to it over the 6258.
No, I was talking about the size of the compressor wheel. Full race will only sell the single scroll .64 with the B1 line as they've dynoed it to find no benefit of the twin scroll in that size.
Full Race will hopefully be releasing this data soon, but they've dynoed the entire B1 series of turbos on a 1.8 Miata... and that was part of the reason they dropped the 6255. There's nothing to it over the 6258.
No, I was talking about the size of the compressor wheel. Full race will only sell the single scroll .64 with the B1 line as they've dynoed it to find no benefit of the twin scroll in that size.
I'm most interested in the response of the turbo, even though in general a more responsive turbo should spool sooner on the dyno, it may not really show up, correct? I feel like I'm getting a bit over concerned, but I'm set on having a responsive turbo and the most power, perfectly balanced to my liking. I want to see exactly what the twin scroll does do though and I have a miata 1.9 not a 1.8
haha I guess I just won't be satisfied until I can look at some dyno charts and I have more data.
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03-18-2011, 09:03 AM
#53
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So, after giving all of it some careful consideration... I have decided just to go with tuning up what I have, seeing where I am HP-wise already, and look at later improving the whole system with a tubular mani feeding into a twinscroll housed EFR 6258, with WMI.
In the meantime... What I was going to spend on the GT2871R and WMI kit... I can spend on a rollcage so that I can start autoX'ing and work on the weakest link of everything on the car... My driving skills.
In the meantime... What I was going to spend on the GT2871R and WMI kit... I can spend on a rollcage so that I can start autoX'ing and work on the weakest link of everything on the car... My driving skills.
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