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Old 08-05-2011, 12:49 AM   #1
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Default Typical problem- Think you can solve it?

Alright everyone, heres the issue. My 92 auto that I swapped to manual is having stating problems. I sorta threw it all together about a year ago when I got the car and had no issues till about a month ago. Now I'm having starting issues. Every so often turn the key to start and there is the click but no cranking. I threw in a known good starter from my 96 with no change except each time I change starters everything is hunky dory for bout a week then randomly it starts doing the click no start. If I turn the key like 5 times from run to start it finally goes or sometimes just holding the key in the start position does it. It's never left me stranded it always starts, just takes awhile sometimes, but its a **** off cause I feel like a hillbilly"jusa keep turnin tha key shell go".

Things I have done since it started--
-cleaned ignition switch, then got newer ign. switch from junkyard(which looked WAY better inside)
-tried 3 different starter motors although none of them were new, I find it hard to believe they would all do the exact same thing if they had all failed
-changed batteries to known good battery and even tried jumping it
-cleaned connections at bat+- starter +-, ran separate 0gauge + wire to starter + added in a ground wire from starter bolts to body, checked ppf ground jumped solenoid+ to starter+.
no changes noticed after any of these^

It happens randomly about 1 in 5 starts, sometimes hot sometimes when I first go to start on cold mornings, I even tried rocking it in gear thinking the gears arent meshing correctly... I'm thinking it isnt something electrical, in another thread at miata.net someone was mentioning shimming the starter to correct the gear lash, but I havent heard of a single miata that's ever needed that... What do you guys think? has the devil infiltrated and begun manipulating my poor red 1.6?

sidenote- for all i know the transmission could be tweaked, I bought it off a guy who had already pulled it so i have no idea if it was dropped or if anything happened to it, although again everything worked fine for the first year or so.

Thanks again even if you have no input for reading this whole damn thing lol
and this is for your pleasure
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Old 08-05-2011, 01:56 AM   #2
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clutch switch?
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Old 08-05-2011, 02:06 AM   #3
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Hey! buddy good luck with that, I been having the same problem and did all that you listed. Now I am actively looking for a starter harness as I am positive mine is corroded beyond repair and builds great resistance, I changed the Negative ground cable that goes from battery to PPF and it was an improvement as such cable was black and green from all the water getting to it, I got reason to believe this cable will heat up and build serious resistance (this car was a flood car from the auction.

Yep I knew what I was getting into but got it for cheap Also while you are there check your neutral switch make sure the connector plug is properly engaged even worse make sure no wires are loose, broken or backed out from the plug. Blessings.
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Old 08-05-2011, 10:36 AM   #4
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I know a few people with the same problem. They've tried all the same fixes. The only person I know who fixed it, replaced the ignition switch.
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Old 08-05-2011, 11:57 PM   #5
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The click with no crank tells me the starter isn't getting enough juice. Enough to move the solanoid, but not enough to move the starter motor. Check the signal wire to the solanoid(from the key to the solanoid). Next time it happens, bipass the solanoid, if it cranks, it's the signal wire, if it doesn't, it's the solanoid or the power cable. Hope this helps.
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Old 08-06-2011, 04:23 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ianferrell View Post
clutch switch?
I dun has one of those... Cause I didnt wire it in when I swapped tranny's... The only safty witch is in the shifter and only starts in neutral... I suppose I can ground it out so I dont have one of those either and chances are I'll never put it back till my gf goes to start it and crashes into something but that'll come in time.

I also got mine for cheap I suppose... I have all in all about 1200$ into it including kyb agx and h/r and rims/tires and all dmv fees. All said and done a new starter would be about the forth of the cost of the car lol
Well ok looks like Ill be shimming the starter... I know its not a wiring/power issue because :
I ran 12v from battery to starter using a GIANT 0 gauge cable no difference
and then switched it to from bat. ground to starter bolt ground and no difference either.
I even got it to do it while jumping 12v to solenoid 12v >< so I know its not wiring and if it is... it just can't be. I even just checked the ppf ground which was all copper and shiny wire and cleaned contacts at engine ground and ppf ground. I wonder if my flywheel teeth are effed up or something...? never ever grinds though. not once... Its so damn annoying cause I cant go around gloating about my perfect 1200$ mobile unless its perfect -__-
Tomo- I mean in 8 hours I will play with shimming the starter to see what happens.. worst comes to worst I have a whole other engine trans and starter and ignition switch and flywheel so maybe if I get pissed enough I'll boost the sh%^ outta it blow it up and swap in all new stuff.
Ill keep ya posted
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Old 08-06-2011, 04:31 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mousee View Post
The click with no crank tells me the starter isn't getting enough juice. Enough to move the solanoid, but not enough to move the starter motor. Check the signal wire to the solanoid(from the key to the solanoid). Next time it happens, bipass the solanoid, if it cranks, it's the signal wire, if it doesn't, it's the solanoid or the power cable. Hope this helps.
Thats exactly what I thought, and every electrical issue I've run into has been similar, bad connection at ground, bad switches, bad batt.. but Ive changed all that, even when I changed starters 3 times (they all have different solenoids so I changed those 3 times in doing so) and exact same issue. Starts fine for 1st week or so then gets all jacked 1 in every 5 er so it does it, doesn't get any better or worse. Unless all 3 of my starter motors are bad... they do all have over 100k on them...
Would an autozone/pepboys/kragen freebee tell me if theyr good or bad or will it just send power to em and see if they spin/engage?
Thanks Again everyone for help!
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Old 08-06-2011, 04:45 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiamiMiataGroup View Post
Hey! buddy good luck with that, I been having the same problem and did all that you listed. Now I am actively looking for a starter harness as I am positive mine is corroded beyond repair and builds great resistance, I changed the Negative ground cable that goes from battery to PPF and it was an improvement as such cable was black and green from all the water getting to it, I got reason to believe this cable will heat up and build serious resistance (this car was a flood car from the auction.
.
When you say improvement do you mean like does it once a week or fixed?

just curious how come you want another harness?
and if it were me, I would go to a car audio shop or online and buy 15ft of 4 gauge amplifier wire and 10 ft of 4 gauge wire(for ground) four gauge should be able to carry around 75 amps if I remember right and thats plenty. get necessary brass terminals from ace hardware or whatever hardware store you have. The wires will be new and it should be much cheaper (http://cgi.ebay.com/4-GAUGE-GA-PRO-P...item3f0c8d191d) than a whole new starter harness and easier. Just run the 12v+ cleanly and ground batt. to body body to motor and any other places you feel like(can't have enough grounds). Leave your current harness in place. Anyways
Good luck with yours!
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Old 08-06-2011, 06:08 PM   #9
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alright shimmed farthest corner out about 1/8" I'll let you know in a week or sooner if any improvement. I know that it is starting fine now but well see
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Old 11-08-2011, 01:33 PM   #10
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Just thought I'd come back and say how i fixed it. The na starters are giant heavy straight up motors, they require alot of power to spin em and now days most na motors are around 15-20 years old. My friends rx-7 fc has the same problem. After taking all 3 of my starters out and having them tested again one after another, I found that every so often the gear wouldn't extend but it would still spin. I thought this was weird because in person the spinning starter was pretty loud but I hadn't heard anything like that in the car, so I wouldve never known. Anyways, my click no start went on with the same starter for about a year with no change-never stranded me but annoying as hell. In my second car it started happening too, so I got pissed and decided to get a couple nb starters off ebay because they were cheap(both shipped to my door for $40) and gear reduction type starters(requires a little less power and doesn't spin as fast but has way more torque). So I swapped em in to both my miatas and what do you know no more problems. You can only use 2 out of the 3 mounting holes but that hasn't been a problem for me or anyone else.
So anyways what fixed my issue was the nb gear reduction starter.
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