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Old 12-07-2011, 10:34 AM   #21
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Thanks Will...and thanks for all the advice everyone...

Passing smog is a big deal at this point, now that i am in Texas and not Oklahoma...

I will forward this thread to Gary at Trackdog...

Sounds like either RX8 425s might be the best of the older type, but the newer types sound interesting...i will see what Gary suggests...

Randy
I passed smog 3-years ago with no cat converter on 580cc injectors on MS1. I barely passed, but I made it.
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Old 12-07-2011, 10:53 AM   #22
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MSPnP uses the MS1 CPU, which even with hi-rez firmware isn't the greatest thing in the universe when it comes to idling cleanly on large injectors. (Speaking from the perspective of an MS1 user.)

Again, not saying it can't be done, just asking why you'd make it harder than it needs to be.
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Old 12-07-2011, 10:57 AM   #23
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the DW's and rx8 injectors are the same style of denso injectors, its not going to make much difference if you swap them out... That said, with proper setup they should idle just fine, as people get the ancient style rx7 injectors that are about that big to idle fine. Its not the injectors, its the tune.

the rx7 injectors are early 80s tech, the big ones are kinda like squirt guns and will make idling a little difficult.
the densos like the rx8 and dws are is late 90s tech. A big leap over the earlier style.
bosch ev14s like FIC and IDs are late 00s tech.
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Old 12-07-2011, 10:59 AM   #24
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the DW's and rx8 injectors are the same style of denso injectors, its not going to make much difference if you swap them out... That said, with proper setup they should idle just fine, as people get the ancient style rx7 injectors that are about that big to idle fine. Its not the injectors, its the tune.

the rx7 injectors are early 80s tech, the big ones are kinda like squirt guns and will make idling a little difficult.
the densos like the rx8 and dws are is late 90s tech. A big leap over the earlier style.
bosch ev14s like FIC and IDs are late 00s tech.
I still kind of want a set, I guess now is a good time.
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Old 12-07-2011, 02:04 PM   #25
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I passed smog 3-years ago with no cat converter on 580cc injectors on MS1. I barely passed, but I made it.
That's good to know...then, with 400ish injectors, a cat, etc, i should be able to pass no prob...

Randy
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Old 12-11-2011, 06:42 PM   #26
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Gary is putting on 440s...i will shortly have 600cc's for sale...

Randy
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Old 12-11-2011, 07:11 PM   #27
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What kind of 440cc injector? If it's an RC440, it will do absolutely nothing for your "issues".

You need a tune, not injectors. And even if you needed injectors, going BACKWARDS to an EV1-style injector is the last thing you want to do.
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Old 12-11-2011, 07:17 PM   #28
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What kind of 440cc injector? If it's an RC440, it will do absolutely nothing for your "issues".

You need a tune, not injectors. And even if you needed injectors, going BACKWARDS to an EV1-style injector is the last thing you want to do.
People just don't listen.

Been preaching this to a buddy of mine for months (that's YOU JT if you're reading this) and he still went and picked up some old *** POS ev1 680's last week. They run like ****. Will not take any more pressure than stock. Inconsistent. The whole 9 yards.

I guess some people just like to have a shitty idle and inconsistent afr's.
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Old 12-11-2011, 07:34 PM   #29
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We have a good customer in the Socal area who took our advice on injectors when we built/installed a 10:1 forged VVT longblock for him earlier this year. He wanted the ability to put a big blower/turbo on the motor later on without changing anything else, so we recommended ID1000s (dynamically matched EV14s).

The result? Perfect cold starts at nearly 7000ft, 30mpg combined, and flawless low-speed driveability - and the injector will support 500+whp at ~45psi of base pressure. What more could you want?
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Old 12-11-2011, 09:13 PM   #30
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Rainman

which deatschwerks 600's do you have? high-z [DW 218-5-600] or low-z [CA 18-600]?
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Old 12-12-2011, 05:39 PM   #31
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So... EV1 < RX8 < EV14 ?
Damn.. Just bought RX8.
But at 440cc/min and full seq. It will run just fine. Right?
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Old 12-12-2011, 10:50 PM   #32
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Yes.
And yes.
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Old 12-13-2011, 12:26 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by IHI View Post
So... EV1 < RX8 < EV14 ?
Damn.. Just bought RX8.
But at 440cc/min and full seq. It will run just fine. Right?
Yes. Again, I'm running 580cc EV1s on batch fire and my car idles great.
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Old 12-13-2011, 03:22 PM   #34
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Ultimately it will come down to the tune/tuner and the abilities of the ECU to be tuned.

We have Mitsubishis and Subarus with stock-like (or better) idle and cruise on 1300 and 1500cc injectors. They are able to accomplish this because they have quite a few fuel and timing parameters that can be adjusted.

If you are using older hardware/software, you might be limited in injector size by it's ability to adjust a few parameters.

In the end, go with what your tuner knows and has the ability to tune...or change what your tuner has the ability to tune or tuner all-together.
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Old 12-13-2011, 03:58 PM   #35
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However: it is hard to compensate bad hardware. All things should be right. Also: running smooth at idle speed is the hardest thing to do for an engine. I mean like new Japanese tickover style. It might idle rich, but it should idle steady. If idle is instable, the engine is extreme or something is wrong.
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