A common question ANSWERED: Why we ONLY recommend ATi Dampers? - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Fab9 Tuning - Miata Performance Parts Fab9 Tuning specializes in bringing the highest performing Mazda Miata parts on the market today.

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-08-2016, 06:54 PM   #1
FAB
Fab9Tuning.com
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
 
FAB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 943
Total Cats: 394
Default A common question ANSWERED: Why we ONLY recommend ATi Dampers?

We ship thousands of sets of engine internals each year and it's common practice for a customer to chat with us about their goals, budgets and guidance on which components might be right for them.

Three times today I was asked about ATi dampers and "what's the big fuss?". If you weren't already aware, the ATi damper is the ONLY "dynamic" damper on the market for the MX-5. What's a dynamic damper? The factory damper and other aftermarket balancers are use a BONDED counterweight. This means that they are only capable of effectively dampening a small RPM window (if they were even tuned for that) because the counter mass is fixed to one position using a bonded rubber material.

The ATi dampers use a suspended counterweight that adapts continuously throughout the RPM range to keep your harmonics happy throughout the entire RPM window!

Our kit includes NEW crank hardware/woodruff key, a BELT GUIDE and you can choose from the variety of trigger wheels that we produce in-house. Shop now at: ATI Harmonic Balancer + Hardware/Keyway 918522 Miata

FAB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2016, 10:50 PM   #2
Mr Broke Pants
iTrader: (9)
 
thumpetto007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,602
Total Cats: 28
Default

Will you actually answer the question? Why do you only recommend ATi Dampers?

Even compared to Supermiata Damper?

What cars need this damper? Power levels? RPMs?
thumpetto007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2016, 11:20 PM   #3
FAB
Fab9Tuning.com
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
 
FAB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 943
Total Cats: 394
Default

That's the BHJ damper with a brand name on it - it's a static, fixed counter weight damper. I can't say there is a sure power level that "requires" a damper but it's a good measure for anyone who changes the weight of their rotating mass. Your crank is counter balanced based on factory internals.

One of the things that's commonly communicated is that you run a damper only to save your oil pump. It's true that a damper will improve conditions that cause pump failure but it's first job is to combat harmful engine harmonics. Better for engine bearings, rod ends, wrist pins, false knock detection and so on... The BP engine is already a noisy rotating assembly, a damper should be relatively high on your list of modifications.
FAB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2016, 07:12 PM   #4
Mr Broke Pants
iTrader: (9)
 
thumpetto007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,602
Total Cats: 28
Default

I have the stock crank pulley, A/C, P/S, Forged 949 racing flywheel (i think it's 11 pounds), Flyin Miata stage2 Clutch. I'm running (well, it's not running currently but thats another story) MS3 Basic, off of whatever trigger wheel my car came with from the factory. (2001 miata LS 1.8vvt engine)

Redline is 6800. c30-94 rotrex with intercooler. should be around 260whp.

What trigger wheel do I get? I guess I'll get the ATI damper if you'd recommend it for my application.

Thanks
thumpetto007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2016, 07:26 PM   #5
FAB
Fab9Tuning.com
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
 
FAB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 943
Total Cats: 394
Default

Great question. If you aren't changing your management run exactly the same wheel you have in the ATi configuration.
FAB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2016, 07:47 PM   #6
Mr Broke Pants
iTrader: (9)
 
thumpetto007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,602
Total Cats: 28
Default

so I choose "4 tooth trigger wheel (your oem 4 tooth will not fit ati damper" as the trigger wheel option?
thumpetto007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2016, 09:30 PM   #7
FAB
Fab9Tuning.com
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
 
FAB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 943
Total Cats: 394
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thumpetto007 View Post
so I choose "4 tooth trigger wheel (your oem 4 tooth will not fit ati damper" as the trigger wheel option?
Thats correct!
FAB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2016, 01:00 AM   #8
Mr Broke Pants
iTrader: (9)
 
thumpetto007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,602
Total Cats: 28
Default

Will I feel a difference in engine NVH with this damper? Or does it effect things on a smaller scale?

Thanks. I look forward to having a very dense dollar/volume item on the pos miata
thumpetto007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2016, 02:01 AM   #9
Ich verstehe nur Bahnhof
iTrader: (3)
 
psyber_0ptix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 3,709
Total Cats: 319
Default

i think it's amazing that customers are getting answered
psyber_0ptix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2016, 03:30 AM   #10
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 347
Total Cats: 33
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thumpetto007 View Post
Will I feel a difference in engine NVH with this damper? Or does it effect things on a smaller scale?

Thanks. I look forward to having a very dense dollar/volume item on the pos miata
Interested in this as well.
astral is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2016, 10:27 AM   #11
FAB
Fab9Tuning.com
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
 
FAB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 943
Total Cats: 394
Default

Some of these cars have 20+ year old balancers on them that have visually dry rotted and cracked rubber holding them together. I was personally in this situation and the pulley swap made a noticeable difference in the way the car felt, even at idle. But in other situations the poor harmonics might not be as apparent. Again these are noisy engines to begin with. The combination of changing your rotating assembly mass and an over worked failing damper is a recipe for all kinds of noise and poor harmonics.
FAB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2016, 11:37 AM   #12
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,391
Total Cats: 58
Default

Remember that the ATI unit is significantly heavier than an fresh OEM pulley. Does anyone remove that much weight from the crank (to make the combo lighter than stock)?

The damper works it's magic, but painstakingly removing weight and then bolting it back on should only be done with open eyes.

Fresh Mazda pulley have worked for me (for 50 hours the last 5 years), but I have an ATI that only needs small machining that might get installed on the next build, sometime.
NiklasFalk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2016, 01:23 PM   #13
FAB
Fab9Tuning.com
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
 
FAB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 943
Total Cats: 394
Default

I'm glad weight was brought up. There are two things to keep in mind.

1. If you're looking to reduce weight from your rotating assembly, the balancer is NOT the place to do it. That counterweight is the muscle behind combating poor harmonics.
2. That counterweight is a floating mass so although it is additional weight, it doesn't have as dramatic of an effect on the way the engine feels.
FAB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2016, 02:08 PM   #14
Elite Member
 
Chiburbian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Gilberts, IL
Posts: 2,158
Total Cats: 131
Default

I would also imagine that while it is heavier it is pretty close to the moment of inertia.
Chiburbian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2016, 04:52 PM   #15
Mr Broke Pants
iTrader: (9)
 
thumpetto007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,602
Total Cats: 28
Default

I will be commenting on free rev differences before and after the ati damper. Have a little video of each.
thumpetto007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2016, 05:55 PM   #16
Elite Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Canton, Ga
Posts: 1,707
Total Cats: 19
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thumpetto007 View Post
I will be commenting on free rev differences before and after the ati damper. Have a little video of each.
Looking forward to that one
Stealth97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2016, 05:59 PM   #17
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 17,997
Total Cats: 1,463
Default

I bet someone a dollar there won't be a noticeable difference.
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2016, 06:50 PM   #18
Elite Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Erat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Detroit
Posts: 4,199
Total Cats: 260
Default

Do the ones for Miatas have undersized pulleys?
Erat is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2016, 07:11 PM   #19
Mr Broke Pants
iTrader: (9)
 
thumpetto007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,602
Total Cats: 28
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
I bet someone a dollar there won't be a noticeable difference.
I'll take that bet. 1 dollar! I'll even give you paypal fees.

*internet handshake*
thumpetto007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2016, 07:16 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 784
Total Cats: 104
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by psyber_0ptix View Post
i think it's amazing that customers are getting answered

QFT.


Don't mind these posts, they'll go away if we ignore them!
Arca_ex is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Miata 1.8 BP and Mazdaspeed Engine oil pan baffles Neilv Miata parts for sale/trade 19 10-27-2017 01:07 PM
Why would fixed timing move? danotakulus MEGAsquirt 17 07-07-2016 06:37 PM
90-93 Miata Ignitor Unit to make COPs set up (Mitsubishi Power TR Unit J702T) Solomon Miata parts for sale/trade 0 07-06-2016 03:23 AM
Bought another Miata, this time with VVT + 6 speed wrxnova Meet and Greet 13 06-27-2016 03:23 PM
Reinforced engine recipe I got - fixed elior77 Engine Performance 18 06-13-2016 10:12 AM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:26 AM.