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Old 01-03-2009, 11:22 PM   #21
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Or everyone would report all the time and mods would sift through hundreds of messages. Posting "BAN THE NOOB" in a thread is not a big deal in my book. You obviously don't have the ability to do it so who cares. I like how the forum used to be. Sure it was harsh, but it allowed us to prety much hand pick our membership and for the longest time resulted in a member base that was highly intelligent and creative.
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Old 01-03-2009, 11:25 PM   #22
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Savington, let me tell you something no member has told you yet: you can bash a noob without cussing him.

Dial down the insults so everyone can hear your arguments.

Plus, you sound like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hide. You act appropriately as a mod on m.net and then come over here and insult someone who's trying to learn.
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Old 01-03-2009, 11:29 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
The mods here seem to be supporting this, to be quite honest. I'll blow the elephant up, too: I can't see the mod forum here, but I'd guess Rick has been pressuring the mods to clean it up, grow the forum, and generate ad revenue. It was my worry when Rick bought this place, and it appears that it was a valid one.

*sighs*

1st off, money talks bs walks. You are a subscriber; speak loud by canceling today if you condemn the way things work here. While I appreciate every cent everyone donates, and every dollar that a vendor pays, I certainly won't let people start brewing up the hate for me, the site or the people here.

With regards to cleaning up the noob hate. Posts that are not thought-out by new members should be addressed. "Use search" as a response is cheese, but at times it may be called for. Belittling people because they are new doesn't fly with me. Expecting me to force new members to wait for 60 days before they post will never ever happen. If you cannot conduct yourself in a manner that is acceptable by your peers or the staff here, then we must find resolution or part ways.

2nd, you are guessing wrong with regards to what takes place in the mod section. Being a moderator or administrator has its privileges; one is knowing what is said. I assure you, I do not pressure anyone to generate ad revenue and I never will pressure anyone. If ad revenue was needed to ensure the stability of this forum, I will personally hunt it down.

So that you understand and do not make the same mistake twice, I don't solicit vendors. I sell advertising to people who contact me. Ad revenue keeps this place going with donations from members.

So with regards to this worry you initially had. I suppose the fact that Philip deleted complete sections didn’t unsettle you, but someone who has done nothing to put down this forum cast such a shadow that you need worry…..some people and their thought process baffle me.

Please don't assume anything. You can ask, but don't put garbage out there to rally the troops. It irritates me and I really have no patience to deal with it, being a subscriber does not shield you from my serious lack of patience when it comes to this stuff.

**Coles notes: have an issue, you will get a refund and you will no longer need to worry **

To Scott, the mods or anyone else. I can easily include a link in the welcome pms to a thread new users should read with regards to posting procedures. You cannot punish someone if they do not know the rules and I am more than happy to assist in getting something pro-active setup so that new members have a clear understanding of what is required.

Savington, you are welcome to ask or suggest how you believe MT should be ran, my pm box is open. Telling me and others how you believe I do things can end now. If you feel the need to ‘cuss’ at new members, then maybe your membership has ran its course.

I hope that isn’t too soft for everyone.
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Old 01-03-2009, 11:33 PM   #24
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Edit: Rick said it.
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Old 01-03-2009, 11:55 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Your idea is just to ignore it and hope he stops doing it; my idea is to not let the dog on the couch in the first place....
No- my idea is to let the mods handle it. That's why they're here. If you don't like what's on TV change the channel. It's the hazing that keeps bringing the thread to the top. Let the mods point the noob in the right direction and lock the thread. Done. That way you don't go chasing off somebody who just might have something offer, yet they've been booted for a single mistake.
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Old 01-04-2009, 12:16 AM   #26
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.

Last edited by Savington; 01-04-2009 at 12:27 AM.
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Old 01-04-2009, 12:49 AM   #27
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Ok, I will admit: the way we jumped on said noob was quite a bit harsh. It is true that many (including yours truly) use way too much curse words when expressing ourselves. I apologize for this. I have no excuse other than "I am way too bored at work and an angry person, and having to put up with people's bs for a living, like being an ******* online".....as well as "I came in here and saw hustler saying some sick stuff/curse words and thought it was ok"......again sorry....

There is some good in the hazing that's going on. that rotary reborn clown was a complete basket case, he jumped in guns blazing, we all hazed him and quickly found out he is not going to cooperate or play by the rules, and he was banned. Later he came back with threats, proving us right.

This latest guy though, came in clueless and lippy, got hazed, started playing by the rules and toned it down. I immediately commended him for it as well as others. Like sav said: the thread was DONE!!!!

Joe you are my hero and I have nothing but the outermost respect for you and always will, but that post was unnecessary.....That is all.
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Old 01-04-2009, 12:54 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick View Post
Expecting me to force new members to wait for 60 days before they post will never ever happen.
Why? I'm honestly curious. I think a grace period where members were restricted to the New Members section would have a huge impact on the hazing and BS that goes on in the main forums.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick View Post
To Scott, the mods or anyone else. I can easily include a link in the welcome pms to a thread new users should read with regards to posting procedures. You cannot punish someone if they do not know the rules and I am more than happy to assist in getting something pro-active setup so that new members have a clear understanding of what is required.
Give them a list of links or something. If I could just say "Read your welcome PM" I would.
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Old 01-04-2009, 12:58 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Why? I'm honestly curious. I think a grace period where members were restricted to the New Members section would have a huge impact on the hazing and BS that goes on in the main forums.
Nah dude, you cant do that.

As good of an idea as that sounds, people wont stand for it. If I joined a forum where I have to sit in a staging area before I can ask questions in other parts of the site id say "this is a waste of my time and I need questions answered now, im bouncing".
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Old 01-04-2009, 01:04 AM   #30
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I think 60 days is way too long, but what about something like this:

They can't make a new thread anywhere until they make an introduction thread. In that introduction thread we will greet them, and get them started.

Its just an idea.
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Old 01-04-2009, 01:12 AM   #31
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Chatting with Sam online about all this, and he explained why a 30 day ban isn't a good idea.

Rick, what about this: Instead of hazing, ask us to report the post. Mods get the report, review the thread, and decide that the questions the new member is asking are too general or answered easily by a bit of reading. Give them a list of links to read and review, and then lock the thread. We learn to not read locked threads, and that way the new members who do their research get rewarded with more attention and better answers. Either they expect their hands to get held, which they aren't going to get, or they do the reading and bring back a better thread in a week, and the newbs that deserve attention with good questions get better answers. It's not as if I bash every single new member that I see.
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Old 01-04-2009, 01:25 AM   #32
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I guess I'm gonna say the same thing I said above, but in a slightly different way.

I think the forum as a whole needs to take a few steps to making this place better. You guys say the newbs are doing things that they shouldn't, yet you aren't setting an example either.

I still don't think limiting a newbs power is gonna make anything better. Some are shy and read enough to figure out what to do/ not do before ever posting. And there are others. And then there are the few people that make a borderline poor/weak/stupid/stupid-newb post. I think if the forum as a whole would set an example and encourage them to search, read the faqs, post some links, etc, that would work a lot better at getting their attention than banning/ridicule/etc.
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Old 01-04-2009, 01:39 AM   #33
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Ok, first off, let me apologize for being a bit brash. I was pretty righteously pissed when I saw what was going on in there, particularly in light of the fact that I thought we'd all reached a consensus recently in the MiataTurbo.net VIP (very intelligent person) lounge thread.


Rick hasn't said a single word to myself, or to any Mod so far as I'm aware, concerning revenue or conduct, even so far as the treatment of subscribers is concerned. Philip was a much more brazen, in-your-face administrator, whereas Rick is generally very hands-off so I can fully understand how the perception has arisen. It's my impression (not that we've specifically discussed it) that he prefers to let the inmates run the asylum, which is why Braineack was made an Administrator just before the handoff from Philip to Rick, and a couple more of us were brought on as mods. As far as Rick's influence upon me, the sole benefit that we derive from being moderators is that we don't have to pay the subscription fee to get ad-free service. That's it. The sum total of the value I derive from dealing with endless BS is the equivalent of forty dollars a year.



Now, please allow me to explain some of the thoughts rolling around in my head. To me, there is a fairly significant difference between a person who comes on here and posts a stupid or uninformed question, and one who posts a stupid or uninformed question and then acts like a complete douchebag about it.

miata_drift came in here and asked a couple of questions that fell into the stupid category. He had clearly done some research, as he made reference to the Bell fuel system, had already been in contact with FM, and noted that a portion of his budget was set aside for a clutch and radiator. His only mistakes, really, were not realizing that eBay turbo kits are generally crap, and having a slightly distorted comprehension of boost vs. HP.

A couple of people then jumped on him with some unhelpful, wise-*** replies. If miata_drift had copped an attitude and told everyone to **** off, then he'd have been a douchebag and would have deserved further abuse. But he didn't. In fact, his next message was pretty reasonable, albeit somewhat lacking in practical experience. After that, more folks jumped on him with even harsher responses, rather than saying "Look, here's the problem in your logic..." and helping the dude out. That's about the time when I lost it.


Can you at least sorta understand my reasoning here? We can't just jump on every person who comes in here asking stupid questions. If we do that, they'll just leave and tell everybody else what ******** we are. We'll never get any new members, and that's a great way to kill a forum.

I also don't see that imposing limits like 50 posts to create a thread, or 30 days to post, or the like will help. Same deal- new people will show up, get frustrated, and leave. Either that, or they'll create 50 bullshit posts in existing threads, just like some do now creating 10 crap posts so they can use the classifieds.


I get a little frustrated too when I see new folks post the same stupid questions that we've all seen a thousand times. But I really don't see what's so wrong with giving them a little shove in the right direction, so long as they show some inkling of intelligence and willingness to learn. (Good grammar helps too.) We can't just ban every person who strolls in here and asks a question that might have already been answered in page 3 of some thread that's two and a half years old.

I don't know about you guys, but I view this forum as a means for educating the great unwashed and spreading the gospel, so to speak. If I wanted to hang out in a forum where nobody new ever joins and the same old crowd talk about the same old **** every day, I'd join MorrisMarinaTurbo.net.
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Old 01-04-2009, 01:43 AM   #34
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Oh, and Sav, I already suggested that people use the Report feature to alert us of idiocy in progress so that we can step in and help out before things get out of control. It was right here in the recent "VIP" thread. You even replied to my post.
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Old 01-04-2009, 01:47 AM   #35
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Oh, and Sav, I already suggested that people use the Report feature to alert us of idiocy in progress so that we can step in and help out before things get out of control. It was right here in the recent "VIP" thread. You even replied to my post.
Didn't I report that guy's post?
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Old 01-04-2009, 01:51 AM   #36
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I have a question.


Say a person makes a thread that asks a question that was already answered. Why cant a mod just post a link to the thread where the question was answered and lock the thread. Delete any other posts that are irrelevant to the original post?

Its not as messed up as deleting a persons threads, equivalent to Stalinist era rule.

We also cant corral newbs into a staging area, where they need to sit before they can post, thats retarded. People who know their ****, will be pissed and just leave.

We also have to remember, not everyone has extensive forum experience. Before I came to MT.net, I was on 4 other forums. I know what the norm is, and what it takes. I know the classes of users on the forums, I know how to approach them and I know how to "live" amongst them. Some people dont, and never experienced it. So when a first time makes a thread and is told to **** off, what do you think goes through their mind.

leads me to my next point.

Basically, basically.. What I told savington, we need to remember that there is a live person on the other end, reading the posts we write. If you aren't prepared to say what you post to the persons face if you were standing in front of them, you shouldnt post.

Rick..

Correct me if I am wrong. What you basically want is for people to stop scaring away the customers. Yes?

From what I see.

We need two things to happen.

Senior members to stop scaring away new members with nasty hateful posts ,that just **** off noobs and cause basing amongst senior members like this thread.

and

Noob threads with stupid topics need to have questions answered short and sweet by a MOD, and locked. Courtesy PM sent, explaining how things are done on the forum and an apology why the thread was locked.

Always keeping in mind theres a human on the other end.

BUT........

The forum rules should still allow me to tell someone his rims look like ****, or he is a retard for doing someone because thats my honest opinion. Especially when a poster asks for an opinion.

DONE.
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Old 01-04-2009, 01:51 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
So then why was nothing done when I reported that guy's post?
Honestly, I don't know. I never got a notification, and I guess I'll have to figure out why that is.
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Old 01-04-2009, 01:54 AM   #38
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Maybe I reported another post. I know I've done at least two in the last month. Did you get either one?
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Old 01-04-2009, 01:59 AM   #39
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Sav, I apologize. When I moved from CA to FL, my email changed, and while I thought I'd updated everything properly, reports were still going to my old address.

I've corrected this problem and tested the system by reporting a couple of my own posts, and it is now working properly. Again, sorry for jumping the gun on you.
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Old 01-04-2009, 02:04 AM   #40
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Rick, I read what you wrote very carefully. I've been around for almost 3 years and am one of the very few non-moderators with over 3000 posts. I've been to the dyno-days, met the boys on both coasts, am a member of 3 Miata clubs, buy parts almost exclusively from the vendors and out of the classifieds, and am really trying my best to help the NOOBs without crushing their hopes and dreams too bad. I've contributed a countless number of sticky's and writeups, so I hope that my vote counts for something.

The thing that has separated this forum from the other Miata forums on the net is it's unwavering intolerance of mediocrity. The quality of the content on this forum is paramount. If the type of NOOB posting that is tolerated at m.net, malibu.com, driftworld, etc... is allowed here, then soon this place will be nothing more than a collection of unintelligible text-typing 17yr olds with huge important opinions that must be shared with everybody but no money to spend on their car because Mom won't raise their allowance. The NOOBs must be regulated, or the "thing" that makes this forum great is gone overnight. The issue is "how".

I have already posted the easiest solution to the frequent "Hi, it's my first post, what turboz do I getz?" ***-raping sessions. JUST delete the thread and send a simple PM to the NOOB. It solves a dozen problems instantly, keeps everybody happy, and is more likely to get the NOOB to respect the forum and stick around than any other solution. With the number of mods around here, nobody should have to delete a NOOB thread more than once a week and probably less. Just think about the headache we've been through over the last few months about this **** and how easy my solution solves everything.

While I'm being helpful, how about these:

Instead of the "OMG-READ THIS FAST" announcement, maybe it should read "NOOBS, NEWBS, NEW GUYS, READ THIS FIRST, IT'S IMPORTANT!!!" And in that announcement can be the same general helpful info about where your first thread should be, profile info, sticky's, SEARCH, etc... The "Welcome Aboard" email that the forum auto-sends when you register is never read by anybody so putting anything in there is useless.

Post count requirements have their place. Perhaps there is merit to not allowing a new member to start a thread in any forum other than the Meet&Greet until they have 5 posts. Maybe there is a VB patch that can pop up a window if a new member hits the "NEW THREAD" button in a forum he's not allowed in.. like this:
"You may not start a thread here until you've got 5 posts. The only forum that allows thread starting with less than 5 posts is the Meet&Greet forum." Something like that would be HUGE!!!

I love this forum and I'm not going anywhere, but I feel Sav's pain to the bone. You can't do nothing, but the "something" you do must be effective while not driving the guy off.

Smooches,
Sam
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