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Originally Posted by Joe Perez
(Post 945592)
Glad to hear it. Having too little RAM is probably the single biggest bottleneck in any modern PC, as it forces the system to spend huge amounts of time swapping into and out of virtual (page file) memory.
Upgrading the RAM and the OS drive to a SSD both provide substantial performance increases from my experience. |
Originally Posted by vpc8728
(Post 945861)
Probably a little gaming, but that's 16GB not 8GB. If you can show me where to get 16GB for $30 I'll be happy to buy.
I think I'm gonna get this PSU too: Newegg.com - CORSAIR Builder Series CX500 500W ATX12V v2.3 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Power Supply $30 till Monday |
lol sorry vpc, reading comprehension fail :facepalm:
Any reason to go straight to 16GB? Unless you need it, just by 8GB now, and 8GB more at some point in the future if you find you need it. Unless you are doing some heavy stuff, 8GB is going to be plenty. What you picked out is a good deal, but unless you need all 16GB today, I would go with 8. |
Haha, no problem. I edited my post to make sure I didn't sound like an ahole, because that certainly wasn't my intent. just wanted to make sure there wasn't some magical memory out there haha.
I though about going 8 now and 16 later, but for the price I think I'll just go straight 16. Should be fine for the life of this build (and possibly future builds) and I won't have to worry about it. Should be cheaper (or at least about equal) in the long run too |
Originally Posted by vpc8728
(Post 945887)
I though about going 8 now and 16 later, but for the price I think I'll just go straight 16. Should be fine for the life of this build (and possibly future builds) and I won't have to worry about it. Should be cheaper (or at least about equal) in the long run too If you can't think of a valid reason why you would need more than 8gb, you are probably better off spending the $30 on tires! FWIW this is what I got: Newegg.com - G.SKILL Value Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) Desktop Memory Model F3-10600CL9D-8GBNT |
Originally Posted by 718 of 4000
(Post 945864)
It's a toss up if too little RAM or the HDD is the bottleneck IMO
Upgrading the RAM and the OS drive to a SSD both provide substantial performance increases from my experience. An SSD will improve the speed of page read/write operations, but increasing the size of RAM will reduce or even eliminate the need for paging in the first place.
Originally Posted by thenuge26
(Post 945876)
Any reason to go straight to 16GB? Unless you need it, just by 8GB now, and 8GB more at some point in the future if you find you need it.
While it is true that the cost-per-gigabyte in general tends to decrease over time, this holds true ONLY for whatever physical form-factor is in current production, remembering that new memory is NOT backwards-compatible with old motherboards. Right now, DDR3 RAM is dirt-cheap. But the DDR4 spec has already been finalized, and will be hitting the market by the end of the year. Over the next year or two, the manufacturers will be gradually converting their production lines away from DDR3, and once that happens, the price of DDR3 will start to rise. For instance, I can get a 4GB stick of DDR3 from Newegg for $16.99 but the cheapest 4GB DDR2 stick has now risen to $70, and will continue to climb as they become more scarce. |
Joe, that's really not true. As long as you have 4-8gb of ram, it's not a bottleneck. (for most people this is enough, obviously there are exceptions) For these people, an SSD will make a vastly larger improvement to their everyday computer experience than 4-8gb more ram would.
Hard drives are (this is a fact) the biggest bottlenecks in a modern computer system. Not ram. SSDs are not just used for their high sustained read/write speeds, infact for your average consumer, that's the least beneficial part of an ssd. What you notice most is the insane seek speeds and the 4k IOPS (very small file transfer speeds). This is why SSDs are still so good even on old pentium 4 desktops that are limited to sata1. DDR4 won't be available for some time still. There are no chipsets on the market yet that can handle ddr4, and there won't be for some time. Don't expect consumer grade DDR4 parts until 2014. |
Windows 7 is currently $85 at newegg with this code: EMCYTZT2467
What do you guys think the chances are of it possibly being cheaper at some point this month? I realize it doesn't go on sale much, but with windows 8 out I figured there might be a chance. |
Also, I found an old Inno3d Ti4200 8x 128mb graphics card that one of my roommates had. He said I could have it. Would this card offer anything over intel hd 4000 graphics? Also does anybody know what interface it uses? I'm trying to find it online but I'm not having much luck
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Originally Posted by vpc8728
(Post 946167)
Also, I found an old Inno3d Ti4200 8x 128mb graphics card that one of my roommates had. He said I could have it. Would this card offer anything over intel hd 4000 graphics?
Which is just as well, since it wouldn't work in a modern computer anyway. That card is ten years old, and PCIexpress didn't exist in 2002. The Inno3d card, as the name implies (the 8x suffix) uses the AGP bus, and it's been pretty much impossible to buy a motherboard with an AGP slot for many years. |
You guys are bastards. Now I have to build a new desktop.
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Thanks Joe. That's what I figured, but just wanted to check
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Yeah, no worries.
The late 90s / early 2000s sucked in terms of bus standards. Within a period of maybe 8 years, we went through ISA, VESA, EISA, PCI, PCI-X, four different flavors of AGP, and finally, PCIe. I used to have a box full of expansion cards that worked perfectly well except for the fact that I had nothing to plug them into any more. |
Just found this deal: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Seagate-Barr...item19d67bf92e
Pretty crazy. Took a chance and bought it. If there's any problems, between PayPal an my bank I should be fine. Also I figured out I can get windows for free through a program at my school. Things are shaping up nicely |
Too good to be true deal looks like it is indeed too good to be true. Seems like it was a hacked eBay account. My order will probably get canceled. Ah, no worries
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Am I correct in saying that this graphics card would be complete overkill for any free games out there? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...D=3938566&SID=
Seems like a good deal and I've been toying around with getting a graphics card of the price was right, but I was trying to stay on the lower end of the $100 range. That's Toms pick for the $200 range though |
Originally Posted by vpc8728
(Post 946858)
Am I correct in saying that this graphics card would be complete overkill for any free games out there?
If by "free games" you mean farmville, then yes. If you mean things like TF2, then it's definitely at the upper end of the spectrum, but not insanely so. |
I mean more along the lines of TF2. What do you think the chances of selling the games that come with it are? Even for like half of the value quoted. I'm not particularly interested in any of them. But if I sold them all for about $80 now the card costs me around $100
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Price went up on the card above. Looking at this one now: Newegg.com - XFX CORE Edition FX-777A-ZNF4 Radeon HD 7770 GHz Edition 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card
Seems like a decent deal and should be perfectly fine for anything I want to do. May be able to sell the games that come with it. If not, still a decent deal. Also gonna pick up a CPU cooler so I can play around with overclocking. Nothing ridiculous though. Newegg.com - COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 EVO RR-212E-20PK-R2 Continuous Direct Contact 120mm Sleeve CPU Cooler Compatible with latest Intel 2011/1366/1155 and AMD FM1/FM2/AM3+ And finally some thermal compound: Newegg.com - COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 EVO RR-212E-20PK-R2 Continuous Direct Contact 120mm Sleeve CPU Cooler Compatible with latest Intel 2011/1366/1155 and AMD FM1/FM2/AM3+ With a $11 MIR I found I'll get paid to buy it haha |
Originally Posted by vpc8728
(Post 947018)
Price went up on the card above. Looking at this one now: Newegg.com - XFX CORE Edition FX-777A-ZNF4 Radeon HD 7770 GHz Edition 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card
Seems like a decent deal and should be perfectly fine for anything I want to do. May be able to sell the games that come with it. If not, still a decent deal. Also gonna pick up a CPU cooler so I can play around with overclocking. Nothing ridiculous though. Newegg.com - COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 EVO RR-212E-20PK-R2 Continuous Direct Contact 120mm Sleeve CPU Cooler Compatible with latest Intel 2011/1366/1155 and AMD FM1/FM2/AM3+ And finally some thermal compound: Newegg.com - COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 EVO RR-212E-20PK-R2 Continuous Direct Contact 120mm Sleeve CPU Cooler Compatible with latest Intel 2011/1366/1155 and AMD FM1/FM2/AM3+ With a $11 MIR I found I'll get paid to buy it haha The cpu cooler is plenty for even a high overclock on a 3570k, they're very efficient. You messed up the link for the TIM (thermal interface material). I really like Noctua NT-H1, but really, between all the good TIM brands there isn't much difference in performance. |
I have that exact CPU cooler on my non-overclocked Lynnfield i5. It's exceedingly heavy, but very well-made. I chose it principally because large fans can be run at very low RPM (quiet) and the design allows you to orient it such that the exhaust is pointing at the rear of the case, where presumably you have another large, slow fan pushing all that warm air straight out the back, rather than having much of it recirculate around the inside as is the case with flat, OEM-style coolers.
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Sweet, I appreciate the advice. All the guys over at /r/buildapc recommend that cooler so when I saw it had a rebate I figured I'd jump on it. These two open box GPUs are tempting me now: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...2E16814125419R
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...2E16814121651R Like I said above a bit more then I want to spend, but a pretty darn good deal for both. I may leave off a second hard drive for now and get one. |
7850 is what I went with. I can get good frame rates in DayZ/Arma2 even when recording. It's quite good. I got the 1GB version of that XFX one you were looking at before.
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Thanks for the data point. As tempting as those are, I'm going to resist the urge to spend money haha. I talked to my friend who is co-oping for intel in they're graphics validation department and he said I should be fine with the onboard graphics which is what you guys were saying as well. So I'll build and then if I really need something ill search out deals then. So now I just need a case and storage. I'm gonna get my CPU and mobo at microcenter along with a monitor and keyboard and mouse. You guys have been beyond helpful, I really appreciate it
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Originally Posted by vpc8728
(Post 947216)
I talked to my friend who is co-oping for intel in they're graphics validation department and he said I should be fine with the onboard graphics which is what you guys were saying as well. So I'll build and then if I really need something ill search out deals then.
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Originally Posted by Joe Perez
(Post 947172)
I have that exact CPU cooler on my non-overclocked Lynnfield i5. It's exceedingly heavy, but very well-made. I chose it principally because large fans can be run at very low RPM (quiet) and the design allows you to orient it such that the exhaust is pointing at the rear of the case, where presumably you have another large, slow fan pushing all that warm air straight out the back, rather than having much of it recirculate around the inside as is the case with flat, OEM-style coolers.
Newegg.com - Phanteks PH-TC14PE 140mm UFB (Updraft Floating Balance) CPU Cooler Newegg.com - Noctua NH-D14 SE2011 140mm and 120mm SSO CPU Cooler Those are heavy coolers, and VERY good ones. This one's even heavier: Ultimate CPU Cooling Solutions! USA But not as good. |
Originally Posted by G3RG
(Post 947673)
Put a machine with that fan upright in a car and transport it a few miles over rough roads, and that'd probably crack the motherboard. Ok. So the Coolermaster is a Ford F150, and the ThermalRight is GMC 3500. An OEM cooler is still a Vespa. The amount of money that some people are apparently spending on fancy-looking CPU heatsinks makes us turbo guys look like a bunch of miserly fiscal conservatives. How the hell can a CPU heatsink justifiably cost more than a car radiator? |
Overclocking
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Originally Posted by Joe Perez
(Post 947674)
Crikey! 1900 grams = 4.2 lbs, and that's without any fans!
Put a machine with that fan upright in a car and transport it a few miles over rough roads, and that'd probably crack the motherboard. Ok. So the Coolermaster is a Ford F150, and the ThermalRight is GMC 3500. An OEM cooler is still a Vespa. The amount of money that some people are apparently spending on fancy-looking CPU heatsinks makes us turbo guys look like a bunch of miserly fiscal conservatives. How the hell can a CPU heatsink justifiably cost more than a car radiator? |
Originally Posted by shuiend
(Post 947736)
What is funny is you are still looking at air cooled setups to. At one point in time I had $400-500 into a water cooling setup for my desktop.
My current $250 water loop is pretty mid/low end. I've got an XSPC bayres/pump, XSPC Rasa cpu block, Swiftech MCW82 gpu block, and rs240+rx120 rads in push/pull. Current cpus and gpus are getting so efficient that you can get away with very little radiator space now. |
Originally Posted by G3RG
(Post 947681)
Overclocking
By time time you've got $300 or more invested in a really heavy, complex cooling system, wouldn't it have been cheaper and easier to just buy the CPU which was actually rated for the speed you wanted to run it at? |
Originally Posted by Joe Perez
(Post 947792)
Yeah, but here's the part that I don't understand, and this seems to be as true today as it was 20 years ago.
By time time you've got $300 or more invested in a really heavy, complex cooling system, wouldn't it have been cheaper and easier to just buy the CPU which was actually rated for the speed you wanted to run it at? A lot of the times you are are trying to go faster then what is available. I know the 2700k I7 I have stock is 3.5GHZ, with proper air cooling you can get them running fine at 4.5GHZ which is faster then what I could buy. |
Originally Posted by Joe Perez
(Post 947792)
Yeah, but here's the part that I don't understand, and this seems to be as true today as it was 20 years ago.
By time time you've got $300 or more invested in a really heavy, complex cooling system, wouldn't it have been cheaper and easier to just buy the CPU which was actually rated for the speed you wanted to run it at? It's true, I could've gone with a 3930k for the amount I spent on cooling, but then I'd have a 6 core 12 thread cpu running at 3.2ghz (3.8 turbo) vs 4 cores at 5ghz. Overclocking has really changed from 10-20 years ago. Back in the day you bought a low end cpu and overclocked it to match or beat the high end. Now you buy a high end cpu to get unbuyable performance. Overclocking used to be about saving money, now it's about more performance. |
Originally Posted by G3RG
(Post 947810)
Overclocking used to be about saving money, now it's about more performance.
Its all about the GPU these days. You could be running a 6 year old CPU, as long as your GPU is up to snuff you can run any game at max settings. |
That's not really true, in most games a modern gpu would be massively bottlenecked by a 6 year old cpu.
Overclocking really does provide noticeable and measurable gains in both gaming and productivity. I also guarantee my 5ghz 3570k is just as stable as whatever you're running at stock clocks. ;) Edit: also a 1.4ghz oc isn't "just a few more mhz" My gtx 670 is also overclocked (1400mhz core from 1019mhz) and I still can't max out @ 60fps in a handful of games atm my res (1440p). It'd be even worse if I didn't overclock. |
I've been contemplating getting a more expensive case. I was only gonna spend $40, but I figured it might be worth it to get a really nice case since it's what I will see whenever I use my computer. Plus if I get a nice one I should never have to buy another one again unless I get another rig. Currently looking at these:
Newegg.com - Corsair Obsidian Series 550D Black Aluminum / Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case Newegg.com - Fractal Design Arc Midi Black High Performance PC Computer Case w/ USB 3.0 and 3 x Fractal High Performance 140mm fans Newegg.com - Corsair Vengeance Series C70 Gunmetal Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case They all seem to having good cooling performance, they all look nice and not ridiculous, and they all have provisions for water cooling (I'll probably never need it, but might as well make sure I don't need a new case if I want to use it). If anybody has any thoughts or suggestions, fire away. I'm leaning towards the 550D right now |
All 3 of those are good choices, personally I'd take the Arc Midi just because its a fantastic watercooling case, and I'm all about watercooling.
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What makes it better for water cooling then the other two? I'm still learning about all this stuff on the fly
*Edit: after doing some research it seems as though corsairs strong point is not airflow while fractals is. I think the c70 is now off the list, but the Antec P280 is. The 550d and the p280 are the front runners* |
Strongly considering this monitor for $125 right now: Newegg.com - ASUS VH232H Glossy Black 23" 5ms Widescreen Full HD 1080p LCD Monitor 300 cd/m2 ASCR 20000:1 w/Speakers & HDMI
Also leaning towards the Arc Midi. The 550D is nice, but I don't think it's 1.5x the price nice |
Also bought one of these: Intel 330 180GB Solid State Drive - 180GB, SATA 6Gb/s, Read-500 MB/s, Write-450 MB/s, 2.5 at TigerDirect.com
It's big enough that I shouldn't need an HDD. If I do, I have a 500GB external |
I have that monitor. Double plus good. I think I have 1 dead pixel, but it's over 2 years old now, so that's not bad.
How are you getting $125? I see $159 and a $20 off coupon code. |
Wow, that's a hell of a good deal on what ought to be a pretty reliable unit.
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Plus a $15 MIR. You guys confirmed it. I'm buying it
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I got a good deal on that monitor 2 years ago for $159.
Not sure if that says a lot about its reliablity, or the ridiculousness that is computer monitors (all being 1080p). |
Picked up an i5-3570k from microcenter today. Got a gigabyte Z77X-D3H too. Wanted to get a UD3H, but they were out. The D3H should be fine for a mild air cooled overclock. Picked up a cheap keyboard and mouse too. Only thing left is a case. I'd like to get the Fractal Arc Midi, but I'm gonna see what deals pop up in the next week and a half. Getting pretty excited to build this sucker
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Nice. I'm lazy so I still have the OEM fan and heatsink installed. I have a nice one, and at some point I'll put it in, but right now I am doing fine at 4GHz with no voltage bump, so I am not in a big hurry.
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The arc midi went on sale for $60 this morning, so I have all my parts ordered. Now I just have to wait to go back to school (where I shipped all my parts) to build it. Final bill was $684.23 for everything. Pretty darn good price if you ask me
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Nice price on a nice build
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1 Attachment(s)
Some time back, I'd mentioned how in the late 90s, there was a trend in overclocking which involved submerging the entire PC into a fish tank filled with mineral oil. (This was before "water blocks" existed as we know them today.)
Turns out that at least one manufacturer has actually created a PC case which is, in effect, a giant plastic fish tank intended to be filled with mineral oil! Looking for an unconventional case to show off and a matching cooling solution to go with it? Boutique PC maker Puget Systems has announced a new revision of their unique aquarium PC, which submerges your machine's components in mineral oil to keep them cool -- needless to say it's not for the faint of heart. The Aquarium PC V4 is available as a do-it-yourself kit for adventurous users who would like to experiment with alternative cooling solutions. The company first started offering a DIY kit for mineral oil submerged computers in 2008. Since then, they've apparently seen enough demand for the aquarium PC that they decided to purchase a laser cutting machine to start manufacturing the kits entirely in-house. This allowed them to bring down costs and create a much more finely tuned product. Puget explains the difference with their previous V3 kit: "Instead of large bulky bracing, we cut it down to only what is necessary. Instead of dual pumps with complicated interconnects, we run a single more powerful pump. This leads to a dramatic decrease in complication, assembly, number of parts needed, […] and less points of possible failure" https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1353263942 The V4 kit will run you $596 plus shipping and includes a 12-gallon tank and cover, acrylic motherboard tray, 7 slot I/O shield, power cord, power/HDD LEDs, power switch, PCI SATA and power bracket, 3-inch brushed nickel wire handles, hard drive mounts that go above the surface, Watercool MO_RA3 Pro radiator and a radiator stand, submersible Swiftech MCP35X pump, 5 feet of half-inch tubing, and all necessary screws, barbs, and fittings. This isn't a joke, it's actually a real product. DIY Computers: Mineral Oil Aquarium PC - Kits Available |
Yep, that's the one I was too lazy to go find when we first started talking about it. It's pretty cool.
Also when I win the lottery and/or Obama gives me a bunch of moneys I would totally get one of those just to have it and brag about it. Oh cool computer. Too bad it's not in a tank of mineral oil. |
Dear Joe,
I added a 2nd hard drive to my computer over the weekend. During that time, I added a spare 2nd case fan in the front to draw air in. My GPU reports much cooler temps and I was able to overclock it a bit further from 575MHz to 700Mhz. Love, Brain P.S. I didn't hack away the metal "mesh" because I was way too lazy and I half-assed the install anyways. |
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 951178)
During that time, I added a spare 2nd case fan in the front to draw air in. My GPU reports much cooler temps and I was able to overclock it a bit further from 575MHz to 700Mhz.
I wonder how much cooler than 39° my new card would run while operating at 1 Ghz if I added a second case fan? I guess we'll never know. :D |
Dude. I got a dell. I had to solder to extend wiring harness long enough to power drive let anlone the gpu
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Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 951300)
I had to solder to extend wiring harness long enough to power drive let anlone the gpu
THIS is why the regulations state that we're supposed to keep our helmets on and securely latched, even when all indications are that the atmosphere is breathable. |
lol. txting and driving.
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Got this thing up and running. It is amazing how much faster it is then my old piece of crap laptop. Thoroughly enjoying it
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Alright guys, I have a few more questions.
Would you buy this? Newegg.com - Acer G246HLAbd Black 24" 5ms Widescreen LED Monitor 250 cd/m2 ACM 100,000,000:1 (1000:1) Also, I need some opinions on wireless mouse and keyboard combos. I know they are generally frowned upon, but I need them for when I use my 32" tv as a monitor and lay on my couch. Serious business guys. |
wireless keyboard/mouse for use on the couch? Get one of the keyboards with a track pad on it. Basically a laptop keyboard without the rest of the laptop. Dont know any brands for those though.
I just got 16gb of ram delivered for my work laptop. Waiting for the tech to install it since there is a high chance of breaking the keyboard/its a complete pain in the ass on my work station. I'm very tempted to do the 2 easy sticks, but I dont want to get my pee pee slapped |
I got this one for my mediacenter.
It's not as good as having a real mouse, but it works MUCH better than a real mouse when lying on the couch. Which I do a lot of, so I should know. |
So who wants to help to compile parts to build myself an x-mas gift? My computer can barely handle starting up, let alone processing my cat photos.
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