1.6 B6 Engine Rebuild - Slow Progress - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 05-23-2008, 01:14 PM   #21
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I hear ya, unfortunately all the other spare heads I have that are not currently on my car look like this.


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... and need at least new valves.

I'm thinking if I'm going to go ahead and put some work into the head, I might as well go all the way and make it big valve, big cam, ect.
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Old 05-23-2008, 01:17 PM   #22
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headwork is the cat's meow.


ew dude, that head gives me chills.
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Old 05-23-2008, 01:33 PM   #23
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Don't get me wrong, I really want to do the head work. But if I'm gonna do it, I'm not going to do it just a little bit.




Here is a piston that matches that head.

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Old 07-03-2008, 07:27 PM   #24
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Head studs and head installed. Motor is basically ready. I'll keep bolting **** on. The plan is to have the motor fully dressed and stick it in with a freshened tranny.

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Old 07-03-2008, 07:56 PM   #25
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i see headwork has not been performed....you are failure mister!
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Old 07-03-2008, 08:01 PM   #26
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At least I'm failing at a high standard, and it's you giving me ****, and not hustler.
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Old 07-03-2008, 08:07 PM   #27
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that is true. i fail at tongue lashings. lucky i didnt bombard you with kitties!
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Old 07-03-2008, 09:21 PM   #28
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That head is a great looking casting from what I can see right there. I would love to have that as a starting point.
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Old 07-03-2008, 09:38 PM   #29
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Ben, with you current engine build how much HP can this motor handle safely. You had the pistons ceramic and dry film coated, but used stock pistons. How does this help or compare to say wiseco any other performance pistons? With good headwork, can the 1.6 ever put down 300HP?? I am gathering parts for my 1.6 build but not sure what parts I want to use. I do know that I will have all the head work done. All I got right now with a spare 1.6 is some ETD rods, and was thinking to go the same route as you if I can save some money keeping stock pistons and coating them. Just wonder if this is a good idea.
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Old 07-03-2008, 10:02 PM   #30
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Forged pistons give you a margin of error with tuning high boost that you will not get with a stock cast piston. They are more forgiving in the sense that if you detect knock at 20psi and lift immediately you can probably save your motor. With stock cast pistons the ring lands would be in multiple pieces. Also with forged you get the added benefit that the ring lands have been designed thicker from the start. Couple that with a stronger material and they can take quite a beating (including handle more power).

That said, with a good tune, stock pistons are not the weak point in our motor or just about any NA stock motor. The rods will be the first thing to break if everything else is properly prepared and tuned. Truth be told, no on knows how much the stock pistons can handle before the HP cracks the ring lands from brute force. Any numbers anyone gives you will be pure conjecture. Also it will be tough to find it out in the future because the the large majority do not want the larger, laggy turbo that will be required to find out. Those that do will have already invested the forged pistons into their build beforehand anyway.

I personally believe that stock pistons can handle 300whp in stride.
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Old 07-03-2008, 10:37 PM   #31
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Might be a stupid question, but just wondering to avoid the big laggy turbo to reach more HP why not use high compression pistons along with less laggy and smaller turbo? Since turbo motors tend to use low compression pistons to allow for more psi, why not use a little higher compression piston and less psi to get the same amount of HP without the lag of a bigger turbo? As long as the pistons are forged they should be able to handle it?
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Old 07-03-2008, 11:03 PM   #32
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High compression pistons lower your margin of error in boosting. They narrow your window for an "off" tune, increasing the chance of detonation if your tune is off of "correct". Additionally, a single point increase of compression does not increase you power nearly as much as an additional pound of boost. Therefore it is smarter to run lower compression so that you can run more boost vs high compression low boost. In fact there is no contest in the comparison. the later will make much more power ON PUMP GAS.

Also, no one even bother arguing that high compression spools your turbo faster. That is internet hearsay and has been proven by dynoing and logs that there is negligible difference in spool. If you want to spool faster then you need to decrease back pressure and increase flow through your head, PERIOD.
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Old 07-06-2008, 09:24 AM   #33
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I need Pictures! This work computer is blocking my EYE CANDY!
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Old 07-06-2008, 02:20 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neogenesis2004 View Post
High compression pistons lower your margin of error in boosting. They narrow your window for an "off" tune, increasing the chance of detonation if your tune is off of "correct". Additionally, a single point increase of compression does not increase you power nearly as much as an additional pound of boost. Therefore it is smarter to run lower compression so that you can run more boost vs high compression low boost. In fact there is no contest in the comparison. the later will make much more power ON PUMP GAS.

Also, no one even bother arguing that high compression spools your turbo faster. That is internet hearsay and has been proven by dynoing and logs that there is negligible difference in spool. If you want to spool faster then you need to decrease back pressure and increase flow through your head, PERIOD.
you didn't describe the relationship with ignition timing.
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Old 07-06-2008, 05:39 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zarish View Post
Ben, with you current engine build how much HP can this motor handle safely. You had the pistons ceramic and dry film coated, but used stock pistons. How does this help or compare to say wiseco any other performance pistons? With good headwork, can the 1.6 ever put down 300HP?? I am gathering parts for my 1.6 build but not sure what parts I want to use. I do know that I will have all the head work done. All I got right now with a spare 1.6 is some ETD rods, and was thinking to go the same route as you if I can save some money keeping stock pistons and coating them. Just wonder if this is a good idea.


I'm not trying to break any records with this motor. I'd be happy with a solid 240 to the wheels. But I don't want cold slap, and I want another 100K mile daily driveable motor.

If I was shooting for 300+rwhp I'd be using forged pistons, a completely worked over head with about $3k dumped into it, and a much different turbo. Really not worth it to me. I think I'm going v8 on the next major build.

As it is I'll have less than $3k in this whole build when it's said and done.
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Old 07-06-2008, 06:48 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenR View Post
I'm not trying to break any records with this motor. I'd be happy with a solid 240 to the wheels. But I don't want cold slap, and I want another 100K mile daily driveable motor.

If I was shooting for 300+rwhp I'd be using forged pistons, a completely worked over head with about $3k dumped into it, and a much different turbo. Really not worth it to me. I think I'm going v8 on the next major build.

As it is I'll have less than $3k in this whole build when it's said and done.
I spent $2150 on my pistons, rods, bearings, and machine working including the head "freshening." If I didn't do 10+ track days per year, I probably would have done cast pistons. I went with the supertechs for the less expansive metal, and I went with a loose bore just to be on the safe side at the recommendation of my machinist.
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Old 07-06-2008, 09:09 PM   #37
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I easily do 10+ track days a year with my current motor. That's why I plan to only run about 240ish, instead of going for an internet fame dyno build.


Your build looks to be a killer deal for what you're getting. Though reviewing the price list I posted earlier, I think I'm gonna be well under the 1500 mark.
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Old 07-06-2008, 10:55 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenR View Post
I easily do 10+ track days a year with my current motor. That's why I plan to only run about 240ish, instead of going for an internet fame dyno build.


Your build looks to be a killer deal for what you're getting. Though reviewing the price list I posted earlier, I think I'm gonna be well under the 1500 mark.
If the 5-speed could handle 300whp, I'd put that much boost through it on the regular. I'm going to tune it up to 301whp, then dial back the boost. I was temped to just run the stock bottom end, but I decided to make this essentially a "0-mile" car since I had the money at the time. Its a different story now...lol.
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Old 07-18-2008, 12:27 PM   #39
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Motor is done, 550 RC injectors are sitting on my kitchen table. Now just waiting on insurance to decide if I start with a new chassis, or fix the current one.
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Old 07-18-2008, 01:59 PM   #40
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Bah, the motors done... but sadly so is the car.

Looks good. Interested to see what happens for you..
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