1.8 swap a lil twist
 

So I just swapped in my NB 1.8 and am using the crank and cam sensors that came on it (replaced cam position sensor) and am getting no spark while cranking and a nice red box "NOT RPM SYNCED" in tuner studio. Here's the twist, I got spark using the test mode, but none while cranking?? It's a 1990 chassis and a 1999 engine and a brain built MS3x. Anyone run into this?

Did you change the appropriate trigger settings in Tunerstudio?

Using the base map he sent me. I played with it but then restored it as I didn't think I was helping my case.https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...a69f4a7dc1.png

bump since I'm still stuck without my daily driver!

Did you shim the crank sensor to the teeth? I did this on my Na (but with AEM ecu) . I must have bumped it at some point and threw the gap off which is how it happened for me.

Yes, I used a feeler gauge to spec. Did a composite log and have zero reading and multiple unexpected events.

EDIT: zero crank reading, wack cam reading

How did you wire from the CAS plug?

White/Red for 12v
Black/Green(I think it was green lol) for ground
White for crank signal
Blue/yellow for cam signal

Shared the 12V and ground between the 2 sensors, that wouldn't cause any problems would it?

Tested my voltage today, 5v on signal and 12v on constant power. Although, that was with a jumper pack (11.98-99v) but before connecting it was 11.6v. Would a dead battery with a jumper pack be bad?

Jumper pack died, have to recharge to do a composite but here's my tune. Thinking about just getting a new battery.

Borrowed a family members battery to do a composite log... if I read this right then I'm getting cam signal and no crank?

Your issue is with the variable pot. You have to turn it to get the right resistance. I would page Brain to this thread if I were you.:brain:

Been trying to communicate with Brain for several days now, he's the one who built my MS3. Haven't got any response and have been stuck without my DD. I will read a thread I saw yesterday by him about turning the pots to see if that works.

Turned the pot, almost looks like I turned it too much?? I am now getting a crank signal and it starts to fire but seems off so I can tell I am getting spark.

Cool, you are definitely getting somewhere.

The red lines at the bottom are sync errors. You are getting signals that the ecu is not anticipating. I am not sure if after "x" amounts of errors if it quits trying to do the sync and you have to cycle the key again.

But if turning the pots helped, I would keep adjusting them until you get a consistent signal and not just from the crank but also cam. Try one less turn ccw or one more turn ccw on each and spin her over. Just do one adjustment at a time and datalog to look for a change. Obviously you are looking for no red lines.

I wish I were more help but I don't have MS3x. My MS3 pro doesn't have adjustable pots so I have never had to mess with them . I have had to add pull up resistors to the pro and a diypnp I built to get it to see the signals correctly which is essentially the same thing as you turning the adjustment so I understand what you are going through.

Will do, trial and error almost always prevails lol. How do I know when they are in perfect sync?

No red lines at the bottom of the composite logger.

You may find that even after you get it started and running ok that you might still get lost sync at higher revs. And of course that might require a lit bit more adjustment. Again, this is all from reading others trials and tribulations. And likely why DIYAutotune made the new series of MS3 based ecu's that don't require adjustable pots for ignition signals.

Makes sense, is there anyway of testing the output of the pot to get an exact "dial-in"?

@Braineack

Lets hope he chimes in.

When I had a DIYPNP I had to swap the pull up resistors from 12v to 5v. I have no idea if the MS3x has the pots wired in a way that would require switching the voltage or what, given the pot as opposed to a fixed resistor I used. So I say let's just wait for old brainy to check in. Or you could go try and piss him off with some crazy liberal post in the political thread in the bs forum and then sneak in a question or two.:rofl:

Lmao, sounds good. I appreciate it.

the crank and cam polarity aren't matching. the crank is falling where the cam is rising

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...38dbcf96f1.png


change the cam polarity from inverted to normal. then it should sync.

so you don't think that I should adjust the pots anymore?

Nope. First do the software change. If needed, then adjust. Thank goodness brain showed up.

Changed back to normal instead of inverted and still no start with various spark. I adjusted r56, r11, and r32. Brain I really need your help.

EDIT: also while cranking my "RPM not synced" goes away and "cranking" goes green but flickers along with other things like WUE.

@Braineack

Should I be using the 1.8 firing order? I'm not sure exactly how you wired it out of the MS

your tune was still set to batch injection. have you fired you injection harness to seq.? if not and you're still using the oe injector harness, then that should be okay.

now that you're syncing, a normal datalog during cranking will help better to actually get it running.

Yes I'm using the factory harness with no change. I have a submitted my log after turning the pots above^ but here it is again

Should I be using the 1.6 firing order with the plug wires?

EDIT: reread your post and didn't see that you said normal datalog, will take then re post

@Braineack

Here's a attempted start.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...6490b4c74e.png
This is a screenshot of while it was cranking if that helps, how come there is no green "cranking" button over to the left? Cranking appears and then flashes ASE and WUE like it started then goes back to cranking

Are you still using the NA6 coil-packs? If so you need to follow the firing order for them. b6 and bp have the same firing order but the coils are reversed. Easy way to double check is to use the spark test mode and see which coil is coil A. Then just plug those leads onto cyl 1 & 4.

https://www.miata.net/garage/images/TBELT11.JPG

Cranking is not on likely because you have gone over the threshold rpm for cranking which is usually 300 rpm. You are at 336 in the screenshot.

It appears you have sync of the ignition signals. A screenshot of the composite logger would be nice.

It is likely now something to do with connections of coils and injectors as you have alluded to before.

Yeah lol I figured that out after getting nothing but spinning on the 1.8 order and not my odd "wanting to start" when on the 1.6

​​​​​​Okay I can upload one when I get home, its the same as the most recent ones just with the cam set to normal like Brain said to do.

All of my injector connections and coils connections are stock.

Hey so I just did a test to see if my spark plugs are firing!!! Only the first cylinders 1 and 2 are firing. When I test coil A its #1 and coil B is #2... what would cause this? Doesn't coil A fire 1 and 3 and B is 2 and 4??

EDIT: NVM! I lied, I don't know what I did wrong, maybe they moved some and didn't ground but either way they are all fire now and I remember now that it's 1-4 and 2-3. I was really hoping it was that and a simple fix:giggle:

are you getting fuel? do you have the fuel pump jumper on your afm connector?

yes and yes. I can smell the fuel, I think it kinda might be backfiring but I can't tell.

Anyone have any idea? This is my daily so I've been kinda in a tight spot

Help us help you.

Datalog of an attempted start (screenshot be nice too) and another attachment with your most recent tune.

Composite log screenshot of attempted start.

A video of attempted start. In lieu of that, an extremely detailed description of the attempted start.

There are basic things an engine needs to start: compression, fuel, spark. Then there are somewhat advanced things: timing (ignition and spark), strength of spark/condition of plugs, vacuum leaks, etc. Then there are advanced things like what could be hiding in your tune such as starting parameters.

Your wish is my command. I read a thread that you and Brain contributed to in 2014 about this guy having weird start-ups and needing changes to his start up settings so I have played with my tune a tad but haven't had the chance to test. I will take a video with description tomorrow.

The attachments are fubar'd. Nothing but text for msl and msq.

You are getting injector pulse, and MAP is going down so the engine seems healthy enough mechanically.

Check the basics as far as compression and cam timing still. Since this is a swap, who knows what the previous owner did to the engine before you got it.

Take out plugs. Might be so wet from fuel that they won't start the car.

I can't say it will do much good but it can't hurt to raise cranking rpm to 500 since you are cranking in the 400 range. Raise cranking dwell to 7.5ms from the 6ms I saw in the screenshot in the first page.

Have you set ignition offset? It's at 5* on the screenshot on the first page?

Wonder why they are so wacky. Here's a link:
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=1ZNVjpVdlneSzH5naJyckTmI3n6k2XvQv

I will check compression today. I did the timing belt myself and I've never messed it up before but its very possible I did.
​​​​
I've tested with the plugs dry and wet, doesn't seem to help. But I will see how wet they are after cranking today when I do the compression test.

And I will change my cranking dwell.

Thank you!

Using a good timing light I bought for my 1.6 back in November I wen to test my timing during crank, but when I pulled the fuel relay.. I got ZERO spark because the light wouldn't light up at all... why is that?

Would my 1.6 ECU work with my the crank and cam sensors at all? Enough to see if it will start with the 1.6 ECU?

1.6 ecu won't work with NB sensors but it should work with the CAS from the 1.6 on the NB engine iirc. But even if it did, what would it solve?

Just to see if it was the motor or something to do with Megasquirt.

BUT THAT DOESN'T MATTER ANYMORE!! I GOT IT TO START!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I checked my timing like you said and found out my crank was off a tooth! I fixed it in a couple hours and just tried to turn the car over. It wouldn't start at first (expected) but then after putting my foot to the floor to get some good ol fuel cut going I got it to start! It certainly is not perfect, and will still need some help but it is a milestone from where I was 4 months ago trying to diagnose my 1.6's major compression loss. I'm truly in awe and amazed that I accomplished such a goal. I got into cars at the age of 14 and 3 years later just after turning 17 I have completed a milestone I didn't really ever plan for. THANK YOU TO ANYONE WHO HELPED ME, WHO'S THREAD I READ, OR WHO'S VIDEOS I WATCHED! This community is something special and I appreciate all you guys do.

That being said, my current symptoms are a low idle (manipulating throttle works pretty good) and my AFR's are pegged at 22.4. I presume it is something to do with the Innovate MTX-L itself. Anyone running this gauge have this problem? Would MS being adding more fuel since it thinks it is running so lean? (I guess it could actually be running super lean but I just don't it is based on how it runs and sounds)

Here is a data log and video so you guys can confirmed everything is okay. Hoping to get this MTX-L issue solved and driving the car

https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...IS?usp=sharing

Again,
Thank you thank you THANK YOU

Congrats!

Sounds like the sensor is shot but that's just a guess coming from a guy who's bought like 6 of them through the years.

I mean.. it's a brand new sensor. Also, I may or may not have unplugged it while the gauge was on..... Hoping it is just recalibration

I was actually going to say I thought your crank signal looked a little odd -- the spacing on the crank signal on the composite logs should be very evenly spaced and yours always seemed to have a weird pattern to it.

double check the req_fuel value on your tune makes sense for your injectors.

It is 12.1 for 254cc injectors, which is stock size for the non USDM NB 1.8 right? It gave me that signal while cranking too

Should I adjust my pots again maybe? Can't tell if that is signal noise or what. That log uploaded was during crank, I will take a log while running and see if it is any different. Also, why would tuner studio say syncing if it wasn't?

when running my signals came out perfect