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Old 07-01-2011, 09:01 PM   #1
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Default 2000 Miata + Turbo or MazdaSpeed Miata

I have a Emerald green 2000 miata. I was interested in putting a turbo on my car, so my question is: should i invest my money in a Begi starter turbo or look into a 2004 mazdaspeed instead. I am leaning towards the Mazdaspeed because, even tho i would have to finance and have another monethly payment, I would be getting a new miata, with a much nicer interior, better bose system, and an upgraded suspension. Not to mention the factory turbo which is alrdy installed as compared to if i bought an aftermarket setup and had to go thru isntallation and setup. Currently in my area, you can buy a 2004 mazdaspeed with around 35-55k miles for 12-14k. Im interested in hearing from everyones opinions. Thanks very much.
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Old 07-01-2011, 09:25 PM   #2
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If you turbo the car you already have I think it would be easier to upgrade when you want more power, because you will want more power eventually.
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Old 07-01-2011, 10:14 PM   #3
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It depends on what you want to do with the car. For example, if you plan to track it, you're probably going to have to revamp the turbo setup on a Mazdaspeed anyway.
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Old 07-01-2011, 10:28 PM   #4
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The Mazdaspeed has a teeny turbo.
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Old 07-02-2011, 02:10 AM   #5
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what are you plans for the car? The MSM is greater as cruiser, but it lacks the gearing/revs to be competitive in AutoX, it overheats and lacks ***** in 4th on the track. I bought mine so I could enjoy the turbo parts and slowly build it how I want it over time. It's really fun on the street, and has decent power with bolt-ons, but you won't be winning any awards in stock trim with the car.
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Old 07-02-2011, 02:35 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by ILoveOffRamps View Post
what are you plans for the car? The MSM is greater as cruiser, but it lacks the gearing/revs to be competitive in AutoX, it overheats and lacks ***** in 4th on the track. I bought mine so I could enjoy the turbo parts and slowly build it how I want it over time. It's really fun on the street, and has decent power with bolt-ons, but you won't be winning any awards in stock trim with the car.
First off, thx to everyone who replied with their opinions so far. As far as what i want from the car: My whole idea with going with the MSM was to get a quick turbod car and then eventually upgrade the turbo as time goes on. I know the factory turbo isnt much upgradable and id have to get a different turbo anyways down the road, but it would be a quick fix for now. Also, the MSM has a decent suspension setup that would be good for NOW but upgradable down the road.
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Old 07-02-2011, 02:43 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harmsway102205 View Post
First off, thx to everyone who replied with their opinions so far. As far as what i want from the car: My whole idea with going with the MSM was to get a quick turbod car and then eventually upgrade the turbo as time goes on. I know the factory turbo isnt much upgradable and id have to get a different turbo anyways down the road, but it would be a quick fix for now. Also, the MSM has a decent suspension setup that would be good for NOW but upgradable down the road.
I'm not sure it would be as simple as just adding a different turbo and turning up the boost to make more power. I don't know what type of engine management a MSM has but I assume the factory stuff wouldn't cut it, also how tough are the transmissions from MSM cars?
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Old 07-02-2011, 02:46 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Gearhead_318 View Post
I'm not sure it would be as simple as just adding a different turbo and turning up the boost to make more power. I don't know what type of engine management a MSM has but I assume the factory stuff wouldn't cut it, also how tough are the transmissions from MSM cars?
Tougher than your 5 speed, and depending on who you ask, tougher than my 6 speed.
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Old 07-02-2011, 02:53 AM   #9
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I'm not sure it would be as simple as just adding a different turbo and turning up the boost to make more power. I don't know what type of engine management a MSM has but I assume the factory stuff wouldn't cut it, also how tough are the transmissions from MSM cars?
Well when the times comes to upgrade the turbo, i would plan to get MSPNP at that moment anyways. The main reason for this pick up would be to get a turbo now. And i dont know how tough the transmission is, but it should be the strongest of any miata.
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Old 07-02-2011, 03:03 AM   #10
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Personally, I thought the MSM suspension was crap. It was over sprung, undervalved. It road like a "race car", or what the factory thought it should feel like. My FCM suspension rides better than the factory suspension at 3 times the spring rates. The suspension was the first thing to go. It's better than the "base parts", but a meager upgrade to koni's and gc sleeves is miles ahead of the MSM suspension.

There are upgrade paths (look at FM's list and dyno sheets for what the car is capable with the stock turbo) that will take the car pretty far and really bring the car to life. You can go pretty far before the turbo is your limit (power, handling, aero, etc.)

I was talking about this with a friend the other day. We were discussing if the MSM was the right choice for me when I bought mine. If you want to enjoy a "faster" miata while slowly making it your own, the MSM is for you. If you have 12K to burn, a stock miata and little time could build a much better car.
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Old 07-02-2011, 03:05 AM   #11
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It's a tough choice. With the MSM you get better brakes, better chassis bracing, and the 6-speed transmission which are all nice things over your 2000. Also, if you like shiny cars, you can start over with a super clean car too. There are a few things that really need to be addressed on the MSM....being the shitty rear gear that should be swapped for a 3.9 gear, the shitty suspension (shocks suck) and the junky ECU. Remember that if you want to go with a bigger turbo/more power, you can eventually sell the stock turbo for a few hundred bucks and you have all you water an oil lines ready to go.
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Old 07-02-2011, 03:06 AM   #12
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The turbo and suspension are things you'll probably upgrade anyway, so I wouldn't get the MSM just for those.
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Old 07-02-2011, 05:28 AM   #13
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thx for all the input everyone. I know it sounds like i should stick with my 2000, since it is paid for and all but i really love the NBII look =P .... As far as the transmission and rear end are concerned, i know its a 6-speed and its gear ratios are a bit different. What are its pros and cons, maybe sticking with my 5-speed would be better??? Did i mention that I love bumping my bose system but on my 2000 it completely went out due to the "buzz" effect. And with the MSM it has a better bose system with 4 speakers, could only image how that sounds =]. I know its not much performance related with when your driving far its nice to listen to good music. So all in all, would it be worth it to buy a MSM knowing that eventually everything making it a MSM will be taking out such as the turbo and suspension. More input appreciated tho.......
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Old 07-02-2011, 10:39 AM   #14
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This seems pretty clear cut to me. If you want a 150whp miata to cruise around in and leave alone then get the mazdaspeed. If you want to make more power and have something you can work on and tinker with, keep the 2000 and turbo it. Anything the MSM has that's an advantage over the 2000 will have to be replaced above 200whp anyway.

As far as gearing play with: http://www.flyinmiata.com/tech/gearing.php. Sounds like you've got a 5 speed, a 4.30 rear and 7000rpm redline (I believe). The MSM has a 6 speed, 4.10 rear and 6500rpm redline. By comparison: 3rd gear ends at 66mph in the MSM, and at 83mph in your car.
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Old 07-02-2011, 12:10 PM   #15
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The Bose system is decent. It may come with 4 speakers, but you can only hear 2. Just about everyone takes out the wind deflector (speakers in it) in the package shelf for a roll bar. The sound doesn't change. 6 CD is nice. If you like to "bump" you'll need a better system. You'll tear the speakers. The speakers sound like "BOSE". Muddle Middles, Sloppy Bass, and the Highs are good if you turn everything else off. I'm not just not a BOSE fan, but don't get me wrong, again it's better than a shitty stock system.

The interior is nice. I definitely like that part. Either package is a nice upgrade from stock. The seats are nice, a little tall, but that can be fixed. I've got a MSM steering wheel, and airbag for sale if you want!!

I'd go over to www.mazda-speed.com to find out about the car. I'd stay here if you want to know how to make more power.

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The MSM has a 6 speed, 4.10 rear and 6500rpm redline. By comparison: 3rd gear ends at 73mph in the MSM, and at 83mph in your car.
This. The number one thing I despise about my car.
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Old 07-02-2011, 03:15 PM   #16
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If you want something you can drive NOW.

Buy the MSM... get 3.63 down the road along with bigger turbo setup and ECU.
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Old 07-02-2011, 04:18 PM   #17
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If you want something you can drive NOW.

Buy the MSM... get 3.63 down the road along with bigger turbo setup and ECU.
exactly what i needed to hear! I really want a turbo i can drive now! but the more i read into how to turbo my car, the more buying a MSM feels like the easy way out, especially when i know im gonna have to replace the turbo/suspension down the road when i want more power. So if I decide to keep the 2000 and get into the turbo game, first thing i should get even before the turbo is a great EMS to give me great flexibility. Ive also been reading about BEGi, FM, and othher new companies on the scene. For a starter turbo, Begi sounds good, but what opinions do you guys have.
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Old 07-02-2011, 05:00 PM   #18
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With intake/exehaust/intercooler/bumped boost you be right at 200-205rwhp in a MSM. That 200rwhp with a proper 3.9 rear gear makes for a pretty damn fun and reliable car. The stock turbo with proper injectors and ECU can make 230-240rwhp too.
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Old 07-02-2011, 05:05 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by doppelgänger View Post
with intake/exehaust/intercooler/bumped boost you be right at 200-205rwhp in a msm. That 200rwhp with a proper 3.9 rear gear makes for a pretty damn fun and reliable car. The stock turbo with proper injectors and ecu can make 230-240rwhp too.

niiiiiceee!!!
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Old 07-02-2011, 05:12 PM   #20
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Personally, I'd start with the MSM and then modify it from there with intake, a better flowing exhaust set up, bigger FMIC and turn the boost up a bit like what doppel mentioned... And hell, if you like the NB2 look, then swap the bumpers and do a head/taillight conversion if you have the extra $$ laying around.. Lol
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