Anyone Ever See This Miata Before?
02-02-2007, 09:54 AM
#41
2. Reliability is standard on BEGI/FM kits...thats well known. Your assessment of that is laughable. But thanks for your "expertise" on that subject.
At the end of the day if it makes you happy to spend countless hours and trickle plenty of $$ into your system a little at a time, thats cool with me. Youre not alone.
I prefer to spend my time driving and not tinkering. I have never suggested one couldnt make more power or do it cheaper. Theres ALWAYS a cheaper way. Theres ALWAYS a way to make more power. The grass will always be greener somewhere else.
I accept all of these systems for what they are:
Greddy, a cheap POS entry level turbo setup...nothing comparable...that can be made to run quite well....with time, bandaids and $$.
BEGI/FM, a fairly well engineered complete turn-key setup that makes decent reliable power. More cost up front.
DIY, countless hours of 'fun', real satisfaction from doing it the hard way, while trickling $$ from ones bank acct.
They each have their merits.
Back on topic....
As for the car in question...10k is high. 7k might work but I would personally be looking elsewhere for that $$ as the mods arent really to my taste.
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02-02-2007, 10:02 AM
#42
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It's not an issue. Where are you? You can try my car if you want. I'm in Gwinnett.
I'm not an expert in the area, but I can't imagine why I'd want to block off the PCV? I can't imagine that it would do anything to increase performance? I'd want the seller to include whatever he took out with the car, and I'd put it back in.
When/If you purchase the car, it won't be a big deal to put a new cat in it. If there is a cat-delete "test" pipe, you just pull it down and put the cat in its place. If there's no test pipe, then you'll need to cut a section of exhaust out and weld flanges in. There are tons of very inexpensive "high performance" cats available.
I'm not an expert in the area, but I can't imagine why I'd want to block off the PCV? I can't imagine that it would do anything to increase performance? I'd want the seller to include whatever he took out with the car, and I'd put it back in.
When/If you purchase the car, it won't be a big deal to put a new cat in it. If there is a cat-delete "test" pipe, you just pull it down and put the cat in its place. If there's no test pipe, then you'll need to cut a section of exhaust out and weld flanges in. There are tons of very inexpensive "high performance" cats available.
Yeah, I hoped the non-PS would not be an issue, so that's good to know.
As for the emissions side of things, I was thinking of replacing the straight-pipe with a high-flow cat, just because the State Patrol here actually will look under a car that looks modified to see if it has a cat, if not, it's a $1200 fine. Any recommendations for that?
As for the emissions side of things, I was thinking of replacing the straight-pipe with a high-flow cat, just because the State Patrol here actually will look under a car that looks modified to see if it has a cat, if not, it's a $1200 fine. Any recommendations for that?
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02-02-2007, 10:22 AM
#43
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I'm happy that you're happy with the decisions you've made, and you don't need to justify your build to anyone but yourself (or maybe your wife). I'm not bashing you, your FMII system, or your or anyone else's decision to go with FM. But I am being open minded when making a comparison to other options in the market.
I fail to see how an FMII is more reliable long term than the Greddy. I see failures occur with both kits. Not often, but they do happen, and typically nothing catastrophic. I'm not doing statistical analysis on failure modes, so I'm not an expert--and don't claim to be. But unless you're the gatekeeper of MTBF data on miata turbo kits, don't question my credentials.
It's wondeful that you've been able to put together an FMII kit for a few grand. Congratulations to you. Of course, that means you've scored used and clearance gear. So you got it at a better value than a new kit (which if you add up the pieces is over $6k easily). Which took some of your valuable driving time, and really means you have a DIY kit with FMII parts. But I guess you enjoy riding on the FM bus with the cool people. And remember, I didn't knock the performance of the kit. My complaint was with performance per dollar.
I don't agree that there is always a better/faster/cheaper, but will agree that people are resourceful, and are always looking for means of improvement in a particular area. Sometimes when you improve in one area, you get additional benefit in another area, sometimes you don't.
Don't get all high n mighty that your used FMII kit is any more reliable or cost effective than a put together greddy or DIY kit. It ain't.
I fail to see how an FMII is more reliable long term than the Greddy. I see failures occur with both kits. Not often, but they do happen, and typically nothing catastrophic. I'm not doing statistical analysis on failure modes, so I'm not an expert--and don't claim to be. But unless you're the gatekeeper of MTBF data on miata turbo kits, don't question my credentials.
It's wondeful that you've been able to put together an FMII kit for a few grand. Congratulations to you. Of course, that means you've scored used and clearance gear. So you got it at a better value than a new kit (which if you add up the pieces is over $6k easily). Which took some of your valuable driving time, and really means you have a DIY kit with FMII parts. But I guess you enjoy riding on the FM bus with the cool people. And remember, I didn't knock the performance of the kit. My complaint was with performance per dollar.
I don't agree that there is always a better/faster/cheaper, but will agree that people are resourceful, and are always looking for means of improvement in a particular area. Sometimes when you improve in one area, you get additional benefit in another area, sometimes you don't.
Don't get all high n mighty that your used FMII kit is any more reliable or cost effective than a put together greddy or DIY kit. It ain't.
1. FM/BEGI kits can be had for WAY less then 6-7k. 2-3k will get one, even less if you know what youre doing. $$ well spent for a person wanting 220hp and DD reliability.
2. Reliability is standard on BEGI/FM kits...thats well known. Your assessment of that is laughable. But thanks for your "expertise" on that subject.
At the end of the day if it makes you happy to spend countless hours and trickle plenty of $$ into your system a little at a time, thats cool with me. Youre not alone.
I prefer to spend my time driving and not tinkering. I have never suggested one couldnt make more power or do it cheaper. Theres ALWAYS a cheaper way. Theres ALWAYS a way to make more power. The grass will always be greener somewhere else.
I accept all of these systems for what they are:
Greddy, a cheap POS entry level turbo setup...nothing comparable...that can be made to run quite well....with time, bandaids and $$.
BEGI/FM, a fairly well engineered complete turn-key setup that makes decent reliable power. More cost up front.
DIY, countless hours of 'fun', real satisfaction from doing it the hard way, while trickling $$ from ones bank acct.
They each have their merits.
Back on topic....
As for the car in question...10k is high. 7k might work but I would personally be looking elsewhere for that $$ as the mods arent really to my taste.
2. Reliability is standard on BEGI/FM kits...thats well known. Your assessment of that is laughable. But thanks for your "expertise" on that subject.
At the end of the day if it makes you happy to spend countless hours and trickle plenty of $$ into your system a little at a time, thats cool with me. Youre not alone.
I prefer to spend my time driving and not tinkering. I have never suggested one couldnt make more power or do it cheaper. Theres ALWAYS a cheaper way. Theres ALWAYS a way to make more power. The grass will always be greener somewhere else.
I accept all of these systems for what they are:
Greddy, a cheap POS entry level turbo setup...nothing comparable...that can be made to run quite well....with time, bandaids and $$.
BEGI/FM, a fairly well engineered complete turn-key setup that makes decent reliable power. More cost up front.
DIY, countless hours of 'fun', real satisfaction from doing it the hard way, while trickling $$ from ones bank acct.
They each have their merits.
Back on topic....
As for the car in question...10k is high. 7k might work but I would personally be looking elsewhere for that $$ as the mods arent really to my taste.
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02-02-2007, 10:30 AM
#44
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*not to pick a fight* but...
don't the greddy manifolds crack easily, esecially if you don't do relief cuts?
doesn't the downpipe suck?
isn't the hardware weak (ie. bolts, nuts, etc)
Now all of that can be upgraded, but they again its not a stock kit anymore either.
fwiw most local owners that I know with greddy kits will admit that its a giant pile of **** if you just bolt it on straight out of the box, and thats their own opinion as owners
but whatever, its a cheap starting point to get you in the game and they still don't regret using it, even if all they still have is the turbo, manifold, and a couple lines.
don't the greddy manifolds crack easily, esecially if you don't do relief cuts?
doesn't the downpipe suck?
isn't the hardware weak (ie. bolts, nuts, etc)
Now all of that can be upgraded, but they again its not a stock kit anymore either.
fwiw most local owners that I know with greddy kits will admit that its a giant pile of **** if you just bolt it on straight out of the box, and thats their own opinion as owners
but whatever, its a cheap starting point to get you in the game and they still don't regret using it, even if all they still have is the turbo, manifold, and a couple lines.
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02-02-2007, 10:39 AM
#45
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Na, you have some validity. Supposedly the manis don't crack anymore (different metallurgy). Also, I believe the FM manis have relief cuts. But we're not really talking about a "base" $1200 greddy kit vs a $7k FM kit are we?
Buying all *new* parts, you can have a pretty strong greddy kit for $3500 or so.
1200 kit
500 stripes ic
160 460 or 550 injectors incl servicing
400 clutch
600 exhaust
-----
2860 + engine management
or roughly 50% of an FMII kit.
And I'm not trying to fight. But really don't like close-mindedness. Especially by a wanna be.
Buying all *new* parts, you can have a pretty strong greddy kit for $3500 or so.
1200 kit
500 stripes ic
160 460 or 550 injectors incl servicing
400 clutch
600 exhaust
-----
2860 + engine management
or roughly 50% of an FMII kit.
And I'm not trying to fight. But really don't like close-mindedness. Especially by a wanna be.
*not to pick a fight* but...
don't the greddy manifolds crack easily, esecially if you don't do relief cuts?
doesn't the downpipe suck?
isn't the hardware weak (ie. bolts, nuts, etc)
Now all of that can be upgraded, but they again its not a stock kit anymore either.
fwiw most local owners that I know with greddy kits will admit that its a giant pile of **** if you just bolt it on straight out of the box, and thats their own opinion as owners but whatever, its a cheap starting point to get you in the game and they still don't regret using it, even if all they still have is the turbo, manifold, and a couple lines.
don't the greddy manifolds crack easily, esecially if you don't do relief cuts?
doesn't the downpipe suck?
isn't the hardware weak (ie. bolts, nuts, etc)
Now all of that can be upgraded, but they again its not a stock kit anymore either.
fwiw most local owners that I know with greddy kits will admit that its a giant pile of **** if you just bolt it on straight out of the box, and thats their own opinion as owners
but whatever, its a cheap starting point to get you in the game and they still don't regret using it, even if all they still have is the turbo, manifold, and a couple lines.
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02-02-2007, 10:55 AM
#46
Geeze Ben ya need to lay off the crack...seriously.
Yes its true you can buy enough upgrades/spend enough time to 'fix' a Greddy
OR...you could just probably buy a USED FM kit for even less....and then you could actually control your fuel/timing etc with an ECU instead of bandaids
Makes sense to me...buy a kit, then throw it away, youre left with a cheap Mitsu turbo, which will work of course, and a shitty manifold that DOES often crack...has horrible position within the engine compartment...yada yada etc etc
And having owned both, and spent time around both, I can say quite easily that the FM is far more reliable in general.
I know several people who have had FM kits for 5-8 yrs and have done NOTHING, nada, after stanadard install. No such thing in Greddy land. Tinkering is required. BTDT.
Of course, if you turn the boost up on an FM/BEGI setup to 20 psi, race it, play with settings when you dont really know what your doing etc etc etc you will undoubtedly have trouble. If properly installed and you use as DESIGNED it works quite well. Very well in fact.
But as a cheap-***-intro-nickle it along setup a Greddy is the ****. Nothing is comparable...and it has its place...and always will.
Yes its true you can buy enough upgrades/spend enough time to 'fix' a Greddy
OR...you could just probably buy a USED FM kit for even less....and then you could actually control your fuel/timing etc with an ECU instead of bandaids
Makes sense to me...buy a kit, then throw it away, youre left with a cheap Mitsu turbo, which will work of course, and a shitty manifold that DOES often crack...has horrible position within the engine compartment...yada yada etc etc
And having owned both, and spent time around both, I can say quite easily that the FM is far more reliable in general.
I know several people who have had FM kits for 5-8 yrs and have done NOTHING, nada, after stanadard install. No such thing in Greddy land. Tinkering is required. BTDT.
Of course, if you turn the boost up on an FM/BEGI setup to 20 psi, race it, play with settings when you dont really know what your doing etc etc etc you will undoubtedly have trouble. If properly installed and you use as DESIGNED it works quite well. Very well in fact.
But as a cheap-***-intro-nickle it along setup a Greddy is the ****. Nothing is comparable...and it has its place...and always will.
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02-02-2007, 11:13 AM
#47
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I dont understand why you continue. We basically agreed on everything. And since you don't have any failure incidence data to validate your point that a used FM kit is going to be longer lived to a similarly priced new Greddy kit with upgrades, please stop. Don't argue to aruge. And don't compare a msrp $1200 bare bones kit to a $7k full blown kit.
All I said is that there are options. You picked a path that makes you happy. But don't knock the other paths, they all get to the same place.
All I said is that there are options. You picked a path that makes you happy. But don't knock the other paths, they all get to the same place.
Geeze Ben ya need to lay off the crack...seriously.
Yes its true you can buy enough upgrades/spend enough time to 'fix' a Greddy
OR...you could just probably buy a USED FM kit for even less....and then you could actually control your fuel/timing etc with an ECU instead of bandaids
Makes sense to me...buy a kit, then throw it away, youre left with a cheap Mitsu turbo, which will work of course, and a shitty manifold that DOES often crack...has horrible position within the engine compartment...yada yada etc etc
And having owned both, and spent time around both, I can say quite easily that the FM is far more reliable in general.
I know several people who have had FM kits for 5-8 yrs and have done NOTHING, nada, after stanadard install. No such thing in Greddy land. Tinkering is required. BTDT.
Of course, if you turn the boost up on an FM/BEGI setup to 20 psi, race it, play with settings when you dont really know what your doing etc etc etc you will undoubtedly have trouble. If properly installed and you use as DESIGNED it works quite well. Very well in fact.
But as a cheap-***-intro-nickle it along setup a Greddy is the ****. Nothing is comparable...and it has its place...and always will.
Yes its true you can buy enough upgrades/spend enough time to 'fix' a Greddy
OR...you could just probably buy a USED FM kit for even less....and then you could actually control your fuel/timing etc with an ECU instead of bandaids
Makes sense to me...buy a kit, then throw it away, youre left with a cheap Mitsu turbo, which will work of course, and a shitty manifold that DOES often crack...has horrible position within the engine compartment...yada yada etc etc
And having owned both, and spent time around both, I can say quite easily that the FM is far more reliable in general.
I know several people who have had FM kits for 5-8 yrs and have done NOTHING, nada, after stanadard install. No such thing in Greddy land. Tinkering is required. BTDT.
Of course, if you turn the boost up on an FM/BEGI setup to 20 psi, race it, play with settings when you dont really know what your doing etc etc etc you will undoubtedly have trouble. If properly installed and you use as DESIGNED it works quite well. Very well in fact.
But as a cheap-***-intro-nickle it along setup a Greddy is the ****. Nothing is comparable...and it has its place...and always will.
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02-02-2007, 11:29 AM
#48
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again, not to be a dick Ben, BUT
Greddy may be $1200, but a COMPARABLE FM kit is $2770
Yes it does cost 2x as much, but does come with some things the Greddy doesn't.
And $7k for a full blown FM2? where? They are $4995 for a FM2 w/ Hydra no less...
Greddy may be $1200, but a COMPARABLE FM kit is $2770
Yes it does cost 2x as much, but does come with some things the Greddy doesn't.
And $7k for a full blown FM2? where? They are $4995 for a FM2 w/ Hydra no less...
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02-02-2007, 11:31 AM
#49
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It's not an issue. Where are you? You can try my car if you want. I'm in Gwinnett.
I'm not an expert in the area, but I can't imagine why I'd want to block off the PCV? I can't imagine that it would do anything to increase performance? I'd want the seller to include whatever he took out with the car, and I'd put it back in.
When/If you purchase the car, it won't be a big deal to put a new cat in it. If there is a cat-delete "test" pipe, you just pull it down and put the cat in its place. If there's no test pipe, then you'll need to cut a section of exhaust out and weld flanges in. There are tons of very inexpensive "high performance" cats available.
I'm not an expert in the area, but I can't imagine why I'd want to block off the PCV? I can't imagine that it would do anything to increase performance? I'd want the seller to include whatever he took out with the car, and I'd put it back in.
When/If you purchase the car, it won't be a big deal to put a new cat in it. If there is a cat-delete "test" pipe, you just pull it down and put the cat in its place. If there's no test pipe, then you'll need to cut a section of exhaust out and weld flanges in. There are tons of very inexpensive "high performance" cats available.
The PCV is not blocked off, the EGR valve is. It prevents recirculation of harmful/hot exhaust gases in turbo'd cars.
He said that he'd be including everything that came off the car, so no worries there.
It has the test pipe, so I'm looking for something good to put in there now.
_______________________________________________
As for everything else, this didn't need to start everyone bickering. Personally I stay away from the GReddy kits because we installed one of their kits on my buddy's Celica, and it wasn't the best I've seen in the world, especially after some time, but it wasn't the worst either.
On my Saturn, I had a complete custom setup, almost everything was hand made, welded, the works, just because no one makes sh** for Saturns.
But I've been reading up for a while now, and out of everything available, the FM or BEGi kits seem the most reliable for a full, out of the box and ready to go kit, so my choice for now has been between the two. This car has a lot done to it, I like it alot (for the most part, like I said, there are things I want to do to make it more customized to me), and it would take a whole hell of a lot longer and a lot more money to build something similar if I were to have to start from a untouched car.
This thread was aimed to see if anyone knew about the car or it's owner, to which I've discovered answers to both questions. The other crap isn't helping.
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02-02-2007, 11:39 AM
#50
Federal law requires that any emissions equipment that came on the car from the factory remain in place and in working condition. If a cop pulled you over and felt like being an *** he could write you up on federal violation. Fine is huge and jail-time is possible. Just an FYI.
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02-02-2007, 11:59 AM
#51
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Federal law requires that any emissions equipment that came on the car from the factory remain in place and in working condition. If a cop pulled you over and felt like being an *** he could write you up on federal violation. Fine is huge and jail-time is possible. Just an FYI.
But the city in the county where it is getting registered is the city for which I will be a police officer in after I get a medical release from the wreck that I was in. I was a week away from starting the academy when I got rear-ended.
So it should be ok, everyone knows everyone in small counties. But thanks for the heads up!
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02-02-2007, 02:16 PM
#52
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Any way you wanna roll it, that car is a hell of a deal not to mention one of the better looking Miatas out there. Sell what you don't want and get what you do. Either way you have a serious machine in the end.
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02-02-2007, 03:04 PM
#53
I am not knocking it. The Greddy is a great cheapass/ beginners/budget turbo setup. Its great for building on a trickle budget. And there is nothing to rival it....in its class. I'd buy one myself if I only had $1300 to spend.
In fact I have bought several of them in the past.
It just doesnt at all compare to a well engineered turn key fully tunable system. Nor should it be expected to.
As Fritch said...FM/BEGI kits arent 7k. I dont know where you are shopping.
To be clear, I am not an FM "brand" salesman...I have never yet spent one penny with FM...or BEGI either...even though I have used some of their parts.
I have met many a person who said although they enjoyed their Greddy, they learned alot from it, it ran okay, it made decent power, it was fun..etc etc, IF they had to do over theyd buy a complete well engineered fully tunable system and be done with it. I have NEVER met one person who said they ran a BEGI/FM setup for 5 yrs without issues but if they had to do over they'd buy a Greddy with poorly fitting JCWhitney/**** pipes, a Saab IC and AFPR. Maybe such a person exists but he/she would be a rare breed.
Theres a reason for that....brand has nothing to with it.
In fact I have bought several of them in the past.
It just doesnt at all compare to a well engineered turn key fully tunable system. Nor should it be expected to.
As Fritch said...FM/BEGI kits arent 7k. I dont know where you are shopping.
To be clear, I am not an FM "brand" salesman...I have never yet spent one penny with FM...or BEGI either...even though I have used some of their parts.
I have met many a person who said although they enjoyed their Greddy, they learned alot from it, it ran okay, it made decent power, it was fun..etc etc, IF they had to do over theyd buy a complete well engineered fully tunable system and be done with it. I have NEVER met one person who said they ran a BEGI/FM setup for 5 yrs without issues but if they had to do over they'd buy a Greddy with poorly fitting JCWhitney/**** pipes, a Saab IC and AFPR.
Maybe such a person exists but he/she would be a rare breed.Theres a reason for that....brand has nothing to with it.
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02-02-2007, 03:17 PM
#54
I think the biggest difference between a FM kit and Greddy is that you can find a USED Greddy much easier. If I actually added all the money I spent on upgrading the Greddy(IC, E-manage, 305 injectors, J&S, WB O2, etc. etc.) I'm pretty sure it would cost the same as an FMII but I would have had to wait months/years to get one. A good deal on a use Greddy seems to pop up weekly.
That said I bought the Greddy almost 2 yrs ago and it's still sitting in storage...
t.t.
That said I bought the Greddy almost 2 yrs ago and it's still sitting in storage...
t.t.
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