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You should start driving on the track because it keeps you from thinking that driving fast on the street is worth doing. When you can drive *****-to-the-wall for 20 or 30 minute sessions 4 to 6 times a day you get so overwhelmed that driving fast on the street is like screwing your sister if she's fat, ugly, and a lousy f***.
Beyond that, the PFC 97 or 01 or 11 compounds all work fine at street temps and don't corrode wheels like many other offerings do, including the Hawks. For you, the 97's would probably be best.
If you lost brakes doing one 100mph stop then you need to completely flush and replace your brake fluid as well. It has absorbed moisture and it's done. I'll recommend off the shelf Prestone synthetic DOT4 as a cheap, higher quality fluid for you.
Stop screwing your sister. It makes you look like a loser to guys who go to the track.
this seems like a high level brake talk thread but i'll ask anyways. sry.
For a high hp street car what's a great pad?
i have some autozone raybestos in it and they smoke and stink
then the rotor shakes like crazy i'm assuming it starts to warp.
1 time it actually left me with no brakes doing 0-100-0 on the street.
i've heard good things about hawk and mintex or whatever but obviously reading this thread i'm looking at pfc and the Z rated look great too.
The racing pads seem like too much this is just a street car.
i appreciate all your opinions.
Your brake pads are likely not the problem. The first problem is YOU, doing inadvisable things on the street with equipment not up to the task that put yourself and others at risk. Stop doing that and take it to the proper venue.
If your brakes are fading, your fluid is old. You need a complete flush. Start there. You may not need to do anything else. One 100 - 0 stop is not going to cause pad fade. If it could, any given interstate would be littered with wrecked cars at all times.
Warped rotors are largely a myth that has persisted far too long (my grandfather believed in warped rotors). In 98% of cases, the friction layer laid down by the pad on the rotor has become uneven. One way to fix it is to properly re-bed the brake pads to the rotors. That will scrape off the old friction layer and lay down a new, even layer. The other way is to have the rotors turned, which also scrapes off the old layer. To put warped rotors into perspective, I have been tracking various cars at least monthly for 11 years, have worn out over a dozen sets of various (mostly cheap) rotors, and have NEVER warped one. If I can't warp a rotor on the track, it is highly unlikely you have warped one on the street.
Hawk pads are hard on rotors and corrosive; stay away from those. Otherwise, I have no recommendations for you, as I drive hard on my track pads AT THE TRACK, and drive normally on my street pads on the street. Any of the heavy duty pads sold by any of the parts chains SHOULD work for you.
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Last edited by Steve Dallas; 07-11-2018 at 11:57 AM.
As Steve alluded to, if you don't change your break fluid then changing pads won't do any good. Any parts store pads should stop your car from 100 miles an hour without fading at all. But if your fluid boils at 220 degrees then you aren't going to be doing much stopping.
it's new fluid. brakes stop shaking after letting them cool down.
thanks. i'll look into pfc 97s and stay away from hawk. i bought the raybestos some years ago but it
looks like autozone just sells duralast now they have like a performance street pad the "GT" but idk, seems cheesy. They can't be much better.
Old fluid that boils manifests as a brake pedal that goes all the way to the floor. Brakes where the pedal stays firm but it just doesn't stop as much means you faded the pads.
Don't buy generic AutoZone pads. High quality, brand-name performance street/autox pads (Porterfield R4-S and Hawk HP-S are two examples, there are lots more) are street friendly and a worthwhile upgrade from cheap generic stuff.
Hawk is no more corrosive than any other brand. Hawk race pads (Blues, DTC-60s, etc) are corrosive, as are most other race pads. Hawk street pads (HP-S) are not.
I've tried HPS and couldn't find any difference between them and auto parts store pads I was running before. They faded at stock power levels after a couple of stops. Braineack had similar results (and he doesn't track). HP Plus was significantly better but dusted horribly and messed with the finish on the wheels.
I'll stand by my recommendation for the PFC 97's.
And my voice to text wrote breaks in my previous post rather than brakes. I am so embarrassed.
Old fluid that boils manifests as a brake pedal that goes all the way to the floor. Brakes where the pedal stays firm but it just doesn't stop as much means you faded the pads.
correct, also pads don't come back after they cool, brake fluid will.
__________________ OG Racing
Your Source For Motorsports Safety Equipment WWW.OGRACING.COM
800.934.9112
703.430.3303 info@ogracing.com
Originally Posted by Mobius
Hopefully so, but let's hope it's never necessary. Experiencing your safety gear in action is ... not optimal.
Speaking of the corrosive and dusty nature of the DTC-60s, is there a known good street pad I can run in the dynapro caliper that would be compatible using the same rotor and just swapping pads? I know this is a big no-no for carbotechs/g-loc pads but it seems the Hawks are more tolerant .
Hawk is no more corrosive than any other brand. Hawk race pads (Blues, DTC-60s, etc) are corrosive, as are most other race pads. Hawk street pads (HP-S) are not.
--Ian
The OEM pads on my Sienna van were not up to the job, overheating/glazing and leaving deposits on the rotors that caused shudder (the ever-elusive "warped rotors"). Toyota actually put out a service bulletin about this, although the dealer did fuckall to fix the situation. I switched to Hawk HPS, which are quite a bit more heat tolerant than OEM pads, and completely solved the problem. They're dusty as hell. However, the dust washes right off with a hose, and hasn't corroded my wheels at all.
Speaking of the corrosive and dusty nature of the DTC-60s, is there a known good street pad I can run in the dynapro caliper that would be compatible using the same rotor and just swapping pads? I know this is a big no-no for carbotechs/g-loc pads but it seems the Hawks are more tolerant .
Yeahhh.... my super awesome experience with DTC60s has trashed one of my wheels as well.
The PFC 01/11s on the car now were just slammed in on same rotors, didn't seem to care in the slightest.
Warped rotors are largely a myth that has persisted far too long (my grandfather believed in warped rotors). In 98% of cases, the friction layer laid down by the pad on the rotor has become uneven. One way to fix it is to properly re-bed the brake pads to the rotors. That will scrape off the old friction layer and lay down a new, even layer. The other way is to have the rotors turned, which also scrapes off the old layer. To put warped rotors into perspective, I have been tracking various cars at least monthly for 11 years, have worn out over a dozen sets of various (mostly cheap) rotors, and have NEVER warped one. If I can't warp a rotor on the track, it is highly unlikely you have warped one on the street.
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I believe you are trying to be helpful but in 98% of cases people are making up 98% of their statistics roughly 98% of the time. And while your personal experience may influence you to believe transfer layer abnormalities account for most complaints of warped rotors, actual warped rotors are very common. In fact, as someone who has implemented a brake lathe to machine hundreds of rotors and drums that had been machined at the factory and were no longer "true" after heat cycling, I'd say it is very common. I wouldn't say 98% because that would be hyperbole, but very common. And having watched a fine video in this very thread showing the types of deformation that occur at different stages during heat cycling it is easy to understand how this "myth" of warped rotors becomes reality.
Having personally experienced transfer layer abnormalities, I understand the phenomenon and why it is so important to discuss but we live in a world large enough for both that and warped rotors to exist without them being exclusive of each other.
I am looking to upgrade my stock brakes to a BBK, but there are a lot of option out there. Would a floating 11 inch rotor (Goodwin Stoptech kit) be more beneficial than a 11.75 fixed rotor kit (Goodwin Wilwood front kit)? There is mixed information out there, floating rotors prevent knock back, but 11.75 would provide better heat dissipation? I think I'd go with a sport rear brake caliper, but the Stoptech future upgrade to a rear kit is a plus. Please give me your opinions on this, thanks. I'm looking at around 250 hp by the time the car is all built.
I am looking to upgrade my stock brakes to a BBK, but there are a lot of option out there. Would a floating 11 inch rotor (Goodwin Stoptech kit) be more beneficial than a 11.75 fixed rotor kit (Goodwin Wilwood front kit)? There is mixed information out there, floating rotors prevent knock back, but 11.75 would provide better heat dissipation? I think I'd go with a sport rear brake caliper, but the Stoptech future upgrade to a rear kit is a plus. Please give me your opinions on this, thanks. I'm looking at around 250 hp by the time the car is all built.
Floating rotors aren't exactly intended to prevent knockback. they are floating to allow the rotor to thermally grow thus reducing drag.
Replacement costs.
sounds strange but the 11.75" rotor is actually cheaper to replace than the 11". the (PFC part number) 299.20.0045.01/02 come from the world of circle track racing. so the demand and supply are high. keeping costs down.
Performance
11.75 will dissipate heat better than an 11" rotor meaning that the rotor will offer more torque. In my experience from testing on 500hp cars the 11.75's hold up well as long as you use a good quality rotor.
__________________ OG Racing
Your Source For Motorsports Safety Equipment WWW.OGRACING.COM
800.934.9112
703.430.3303 info@ogracing.com
Originally Posted by Mobius
Hopefully so, but let's hope it's never necessary. Experiencing your safety gear in action is ... not optimal.
Speaking of the corrosive and dusty nature of the DTC-60s, is there a known good street pad I can run in the dynapro caliper that would be compatible using the same rotor and just swapping pads? I know this is a big no-no for carbotechs/g-loc pads but it seems the Hawks are more tolerant .
i also use Dynapro and so far, i didn't find pads (track pads PFC/ferodo... i guess it's same for street use) that are a direct fit; i have to cut the backing plate of a dynalite model to make it fit due to the "W pin"...
This is probably the most informative thread on brakes on the entire Internet, thank you for sharing.
I have Wilwood Dynapro front and OE floating rear calipers. I swap between Carbotech XP8/XP10/XP12 depending on tyres and whether I'm road or track. I've noticed a difference in the pad transfer layer appearance depending on the rotor I use, even though I've tried to keep my use case and bed-in procedure consistent.
PFC 11.75 rotor with V8R Radial Dynapro. Transfer layer appears smooth and even:
GWR 12.88 rotor with Lug Dynapro. Transfer layer appears smudgy and blotchy:
What is the reason for the difference in appearance of the pad transfer layer?
Also, is the purple/copper colour on the PFC rotor near the hat mounts anything to be concerned about?
Dynalight pad runs a 7112 pad shape(PFC 7752) they are 12mm thick
Dynapro radial mount runs a 7816 (PFC 7754)they are 16mm thick
I tired searching and got a bit of different information - but just to confirm.
Does the PFC 7754 pad shape need any modifications to be used in a dynapro radial caliper?
The PFC shape is 'taller' than the 7816 shape isn't it?
Goodwin say there 7812 equivalent PFC pad is:
NOTE: Custom cut pads, please allow one to two weeks. These fit Wilwood 4 Piston Dynapro caliper with no need for modification (as found in our V5 brake kits).
I also saw a few pictures of backing plates having to be modified for the retaining clip/pin - but not sure if this was for the 7912 or 7816 pad shape.
Last edited by plohl; 06-20-2019 at 12:56 AM.
Reason: formatting...
I just fitted some Ferodo pads which are FRP502. They are a similar shape to the PFC 7754 pads and required a little bit of trimming with a cut off disk so that the backing plates didn't interfere with the locking pin. I think it took me 10 mins to do the 4 front pads.
BTW I still highly recommend the Ferodo DS11.1 pads... they are an endurance pad so low dust, low wear and work from cold. The pretty much have a flat co-efficient of friction and work well with no booster (low compressibility). My last set lasted me 3 years and the rotors lasted well too.
07-11-2018, 07:09 AM
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