Apexi Avcr and Tial External WG - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


General Miata Chat A place to talk about anything Miata

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 04-06-2011, 05:55 AM   #1
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens
Posts: 25
Total Cats: 0
Default Apexi Avcr and Tial External WG

Hi everyone.I need help connecting the avcr boost controller with the tial external wastegate.The factory manual isn't very helpful,and i couldn't find something stable,searching the web.a simple picture or diagramm would be very helpful.

Thank you very much.
SchumiMx5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2011, 11:11 PM   #2
Senior Member
iTrader: (19)
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: MoCo, MD
Posts: 703
Total Cats: 0
Default

Does this help?

pschmidt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2011, 01:04 AM   #3
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Manual boost controllers get the job done.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2011, 04:01 AM   #4
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens
Posts: 25
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pschmidt View Post
Does this help?

Thanks dude! I have already done it like this,but i just wanted to be sure!
Respect man
SchumiMx5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2011, 05:10 AM   #5
Elite Member
iTrader: (6)
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: CA
Posts: 1,990
Total Cats: 9
Default

What is the purpose of using CO2 w/ wastegate setups? To keep the wastegate closed?

Would this only be used for huge turbos and drag racing?
kenzo42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2011, 10:58 AM   #6
Senior Member
iTrader: (19)
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: MoCo, MD
Posts: 703
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
Manual boost controllers get the job done.
I get much better spool with the AVC-R than I ever did with a ball and spring or bleeder. Boost by gear, boost by speed, overshoot/undershoot, and scramble boost all controlled fromn the cockpit are worth it, IMO.



Quote:
Originally Posted by kenzo42 View Post
What is the purpose of using CO2 w/ wastegate setups? To keep the wastegate closed?

Would this only be used for huge turbos and drag racing?


Yes, the Co2 feeds the top port of the wastegate, keeping the valve seated. It allows you to run insanely high pressure relative to the spring rating. 45psi out of a 3psi spring isn't uncommon.

I'm sure you could use it for street or track use, but the Co2 tank would need to be refilled pretty often.
pschmidt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2011, 06:22 PM   #7
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens
Posts: 25
Total Cats: 0
Default

After i connected everything,i took the car for a ride.I have a tial 38 mvs watercooled with 14.5 psi spring, as said before.So far so good...
But when i stepped on the gas i had 26 psi in 3900.external didn't open at all.
I disconnected the avcr to run the car with mechanical bosst of 14.5 psi.But the same thing happend. When i saw 21psi i took my feet off the throttle(external didn't open again)/

Any ideas?
SchumiMx5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2011, 09:08 PM   #8
Senior Member
iTrader: (19)
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: MoCo, MD
Posts: 703
Total Cats: 0
Default

Have you set up the target boost and duty cycle tables on the avc-r?
pschmidt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2011, 07:02 AM   #9
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens
Posts: 25
Total Cats: 0
Default

Yes dude.I also put the setting off.In OFF setting,boost shouldn't go above 1bar.

In addition,i removed the avcr as said before,which means the boost shouldn't go above 1bar,no matter what.But it happend.

Finaly i reallized tha my avcr's valve ports were connected different from your foto above.
My ports have a 90 degree corner between them.But yours are in a straight line.

But again why external didn't open,even when i had the ebc disconnected?
SchumiMx5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2011, 05:10 PM   #10
Senior Member
iTrader: (10)
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Oakdale, CA
Posts: 1,353
Total Cats: 65
Default

Was the wastegate hooked up to anything when you unhooked the avcr? I think if it doesnt have a pressure signal then it will take double the psi to open the wastegate. Say you had a 14.5 lbs spring in it, it wouldnt open until it saw 29 lbs. At least thats what I understood from the reading I havfe done. Could be wrong.
RyanRaduechel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2011, 06:02 PM   #11
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens
Posts: 25
Total Cats: 0
Default

Yes dude i had the wastegate hooked up,even when avcr was disconnected.External opens now but the car keeps building boost.So in 1.6bar i had to take my feet of the gas.
SchumiMx5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 09:22 AM   #12
Senior Member
iTrader: (19)
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: MoCo, MD
Posts: 703
Total Cats: 0
Default

It sounds like you need a softer wastegate spring to counter the boost creep. What is your target boost?

Don't be afraid to run a soft spring with the AVC-R. I run a 9psi spring with a target of 20psi and it works fine and builds boost quickly.
pschmidt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2011, 03:58 AM   #13
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens
Posts: 25
Total Cats: 0
Default

My target boost is 21.7 psi.I think i found the problem.I have to use 6mm I.D. line to the intake manifold before throttle plate.May i ask you were did you take signal for the speed(purple wire if i remember correctly) for avcr?
SchumiMx5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2011, 04:01 AM   #14
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (10)
 
Reverant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 5,440
Total Cats: 198
Default

Middle connector, bottom row, 3rd from left. Green with red stripe.
Reverant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2011, 05:08 AM   #15
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens
Posts: 25
Total Cats: 0
Default

We will definitely arrange a meet to fix it,Dimitrios!
SchumiMx5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2011, 01:55 PM   #16
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
Posts: 66
Total Cats: 1
Default

I've always found the AVC-R manual to be pretty clear enough for installation in all the cars I've put them in.

Forget about manual boost controllers. Once you experience the improved spool-up of a well tuned AVC-R, you'd change your mind. Plus, it won't fail.

I ran my AVC-R for ten years on two different cars without any issues, as long as it was hooked up correctly.

As for the stuff like speed wire, etc... none of that is absolutely necessary for proper boost control. In my 240z w/SR20 and Tec3 standalone, I didn't have a speed signal to tap. I ran it off RPM only, and it controlled boost beautifully. Of course this was after years of tuning with the thing, so I was more into manually setting the duty cycle map than doing the auto adjust thing.

You need the speed signal for gear setting, and then from there you can turn on the auto adjust for say 3rd and 4th gear. Don't let it run in 1st, 2nd, or 5th, etc... it will jack your settings. It needs nice smooth long pulls to work correctly. If you run it in too high a gear, it will cut duty on spoolup because the turbo spools so quickly. Run it in the low gears, and it can do some erratic stuff. It may cut or add duty at will, and it doesn't seem to make sense. 3rd gear is best for that. Run it from low RPM to redline a few times in a row, and you'll see it make some adjustments for you. (as long your base duty cycle setting is coming in just under your target boost! - if it spikes, it won't make adjustments until you cut enough duty cycle)

Sorry got carried away rambling
Hugh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2011, 04:49 PM   #17
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens
Posts: 25
Total Cats: 0
Default

Yes my friend that little machine is spectacular.I know that speed signal isn't absolutely necessary for proper boost control,but the reason i want it,is because there is no other way to adjust % per gear.

Each gear may fail to achieve 100% correct the target boost.So in some cases you have to fix it manually by increasing or decreasing the % duty per gear.

Topic speeking now:I replaced all lines from the external wg and avcr with 6mm I.D. lines but the car still boost up to 1.2 bar instead of 1bar.So maybe i have to change turbo's and avcr valve's ports with 6mm.Huh?
SchumiMx5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2011, 11:49 AM   #18
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
Posts: 66
Total Cats: 1
Default

I've never seen that to be an issue. Used AVC-R's on T25's 10psi and T04S 60-1's running 22+psi. The problem has to be with the wastegate. If the AVC-R wasn't working correctly, you wouldn't be able to increase the boost over the wastegate spring's level.

When you disconnected the AVC-R, did you hook the wastegate up as it's supposed to be connected?

If so, then pschmidt already said it - you need to look at the wastegate spring. Your wastegate is causing you to overboost, and you're trying to fix your boost controller. Your boost controller can only increase the boost over what the spring does naturally. Put in a weaker spring and then let the boost controller bring it back up to target.
Hugh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2011, 06:26 AM   #19
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens
Posts: 25
Total Cats: 0
Default

No dude.If you try to connect external wastegate with very thick lines,with or without ebc,3mm for example you will notice the boost creep phenomenon.That's a fact.

I didn't say i am trying to fix my boost creep through my avcr man.

I only said i want to try adjusting % per gear,but that's something irrelevant to the wastegate issue i have.If you take a look in avcr's manual you will see this recommendation for boost creep issues.That's why i asked about speed signal,to calibrate avcr with gears so i can use this feature.

As i said i disconnect it form avcr and i am using 1bar spring but it boosts up to 1.2 as i said earlier.The way to fix this,is to change turbine's and valve's ports with bigger diameter ports.
SchumiMx5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2011, 11:01 AM   #20
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
Posts: 66
Total Cats: 1
Default

OK. Sorry for my opinion.

I think you need a softer wastegate spring, though.
Hugh is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
OTS Bilstein to motorsports ASN conversion stoves Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain 5 04-21-2016 04:00 PM
Hey everyone another n00b here Big_gumby Meet and Greet 80 10-05-2015 05:06 PM
why is my car running like pewp? (tune/datalog) itsMikey MSPNP 3 09-28-2015 07:40 AM
New here, saying hi, here's what I'm workin with. SuperSneakySecretSquirrel Meet and Greet 5 09-06-2015 09:30 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:57 PM.