BEGi & FM kits for Noob - Voodoo vs FMU - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


General Miata Chat A place to talk about anything Miata

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 11-15-2006, 08:33 PM   #1
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 22
Total Cats: 0
Default BEGi & FM kits for Noob - Voodoo vs FMU

OK, so I had decdied to purchase the Bell's Series Z kit for my '92 1.6 to get me into the world of boost (in my defense, it's a daily driver and I have no garage, so DIY isn't an option). Then FM turns up with it's Voodoo kit at $100 cheaper.

I'm after some quick and simple RWHP. Both kits look like they're very well made, the main difference being APFR/fuel pump vs Voodoo box. I've been reading until I'm blue in the face, but it's not much clearer to me.

I love the engineering and finish of the Bell kits, but the Voodoo box has appears to be a simpler install. As the Darkside takes over, I'll end up throwing in a eManage Blue and upping the boost. What is the better kit if I'm going down that path? And which will be simpler to install?

Cheers!
John
johnxsi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2006, 08:35 PM   #2
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

your best bet is megasquirt for the money, since the fpr with the emanage or the voodoo box are more than MS.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2006, 08:47 PM   #3
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 22
Total Cats: 0
Default

In the future I'd definitely like to throw MS or EMB into the mix. But to start with, something I can bolt on and get working right out of the box appeals.

So let's say I'll be staying at 6-8psi to beign with, will both fpr & voodoo work equally well?
johnxsi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2006, 09:15 PM   #4
Elite Member
iTrader: (12)
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Central-ish VA
Posts: 4,449
Total Cats: 16
Default

No offense, I don't mean what I'm getting ready to say in a negative way toward you, but I don't understand people like you. What is the point of "buying something for now" when you already plan to replace it with something better in the future. Maybe its the engineer in me speaking out loud, but I think its a HUGE waste of money. The megasquirt can be bought assembled and then modified in about 10 minutes to work perfectly on a miata. It is the same price if not cheaper than the stuff you currently want to "get for now" but will never have to be replaced. Like I said, I'm not trying to be mean I just don't understand it....
neogenesis2004 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2006, 09:45 PM   #5
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 22
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by neogenesis2004 View Post
No offense, I don't mean what I'm getting ready to say in a negative way toward you, but I don't understand people like you. What is the point of "buying something for now" when you already plan to replace it with something better in the future. Maybe its the engineer in me speaking out loud, but I think its a HUGE waste of money. The megasquirt can be bought assembled and then modified in about 10 minutes to work perfectly on a miata. It is the same price if not cheaper than the stuff you currently want to "get for now" but will never have to be replaced. Like I said, I'm not trying to be mean I just don't understand it....
No offense taken, I expected that coming onto a DIY forum. I posted this question on here becuause there's less bias over here, and there are a lot of sharp people. (Plus it gives you all a chance to steer me away fromt he evil FM conglomorate )

When I say I'm planning to upgrade, I'm talking possibly within a year, not Tuesday. I may find 150rwhp to be more than enough for me, but a big chunk of people get the power bug and upgrade, so I'm expecting the same thing will happen to me too at some point. As such, I'm aniticpating that I will upgrade at some point when I look at buying a system.

The appeal of a ready made kit is I get something that is proven, with great support on tap. I want a solid, well running FI system as a base before adding additional complications into the eqation such as a replacement ECU.

As for "people like me that waste money" (I paraphrase a bit); you bought a EMB, had troubles with it, then sold it for a MS. Wouldn't it have been simpler to buy a MS to being with?
johnxsi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2006, 10:07 PM   #6
Senior Member
iTrader: (14)
 
brgracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ambler, PA
Posts: 1,275
Total Cats: 1
Default

I don't think there is necessarily a "better" kit of the two. I think that since you plan on upgrading your engine management later, there are really just two "big" differences for each kit in stock form:

1) FM's voodoo kit uses a GT2560R and Begi's z-series uses a GT2554R so FM's larger turbo will spool later but have more top end when you eventually upgrade. If you are not looking for more than 200-220-ish rwhp then the GT2554R is probably the better choice as you'll have more torque earlier. If you are looking 250-275+ then you'll want to go with FM's kit.

2) Voodoo box vs. AFPR --> basically do you like soldering wires or hooking up mechanical stuff? I think in stock form the Begi z-series does not need a replacement FP.

Last edited by brgracer; 11-15-2006 at 10:17 PM.
brgracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2006, 10:15 PM   #7
Elite Member
iTrader: (12)
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Central-ish VA
Posts: 4,449
Total Cats: 16
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnxsi View Post
As for "people like me that waste money" (I paraphrase a bit); you bought a EMB, had troubles with it, then sold it for a MS. Wouldn't it have been simpler to buy a MS to being with?
True to a point, only I had bought the EMU before I knew about this forum and heard of MegaSquirt. Thats when I made the switch. You sound like you know what you want to do, I just wanted to rattle the cage a little If you can defend why you want to go the way you are then I'm satisfied, I just hate it when people buy something "for the meantime". I'm sure you've met them before.
neogenesis2004 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2006, 10:18 PM   #8
Elite Member
iTrader: (14)
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 4,921
Total Cats: 0
Default

How about your third option?
Greddy Kit
Stripes I/C kit
and fuel/engine management of your choice. Which would land you 8-12 psi depending on choice.

There is plenty of good support here, after all this is the greddy forum
jayc72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2006, 10:43 PM   #9
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,904
Total Cats: 4
Default

for the price the FM kit is not bad I would say.

pick your posion. Because so far both kits are new can say A is better than B yet.
Pitlab77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2006, 10:48 PM   #10
Ben
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (33)
 
Ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: atlanta-ish
Posts: 12,689
Total Cats: 99
Default

They both look like excellent kits, and I don't see how you could go wrong with either.

If you are looking at running a high end kit and not upgrading in the short term future, I think the FM kit is the way to go. It's a little less up front cost and comes with a little more functionality. Specifically it comes with a (albiet cheap) blow off valve and the voodoo. The voodoo is hokey compared to standalones, but very simple to install. Not only does it add fuel, but it also acts as an o2 clamp. The Bell does not come with a BOV or o2 clamp. I think FM is a more complete system, and requires no tuning so will be quicker and easier to install. I'd go this route and replace the voodoo box with an ecu when you upgrade.

The Bell kit is also excellent and offers more versatility, but will cost more, and will require tuning (dyno time and/or wb o2).

Aside from that, I think you should put some time into considering Jay's last suggestion.


Quote:
Originally Posted by johnxsi View Post
OK, so I had decdied to purchase the Bell's Series Z kit for my '92 1.6 to get me into the world of boost (in my defense, it's a daily driver and I have no garage, so DIY isn't an option). Then FM turns up with it's Voodoo kit at $100 cheaper.

I'm after some quick and simple RWHP. Both kits look like they're very well made, the main difference being APFR/fuel pump vs Voodoo box. I've been reading until I'm blue in the face, but it's not much clearer to me.

I love the engineering and finish of the Bell kits, but the Voodoo box has appears to be a simpler install. As the Darkside takes over, I'll end up throwing in a eManage Blue and upping the boost. What is the better kit if I'm going down that path? And which will be simpler to install?

Cheers!
John
Ben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2006, 11:14 PM   #11
Elite Member
iTrader: (14)
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 4,921
Total Cats: 0
Default

Why would anyone run the Series Z? The Series 1 is only $340 more? Doesn't make sense to me. Unless I'm missing something obvious.
jayc72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2006, 11:20 PM   #12
Ben
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (33)
 
Ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: atlanta-ish
Posts: 12,689
Total Cats: 99
Default

Not everyone wants an a/a intercooler
Ben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2006, 11:29 PM   #13
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 22
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by neogenesis2004 View Post
I just wanted to rattle the cage a little If you can defend why you want to go the way you are then I'm satisfied, I just hate it when people buy something "for the meantime". I'm sure you've met them before.
No problem I've already put way too my thought into this. On the upside, it's given me something to do while I'm at work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
Aside from that, I think you should put some time into considering Jay's last suggestion.
I seriously considered going down the Greddy path, but I really want spool. Sweet delicious spool. By the time I got all the parts I'd need for the Greddy (IC, DP, etc) I'd be close to FM territory anyway. So I figure why not start with a better, faster spooling turbo. (Will def go with the gt2554)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayc72
Why would anyone run the Series Z? The Series 1 is only $340 more? Doesn't make sense to me. Unless I'm missing something obvious.
Biggest reason? I'm cheap!
johnxsi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2006, 11:43 PM   #14
Elite Member
iTrader: (14)
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 4,921
Total Cats: 0
Default

Add it up:
Greddy kit $1200
I/C Kit $550
BOV $100
Tony DP $250

That would leave you at least $500 for engine management. Except you'd have a system (minus managment) that is capable of over 200whp. Realistically add in another $100-200 for misc stuff you might need (oil feed/drain, upgraded hardware).

Not for everyone, but you did mention that you were cheap!

Jay
jayc72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2006, 11:50 PM   #15
Elite Member
iTrader: (12)
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Central-ish VA
Posts: 4,449
Total Cats: 16
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayc72 View Post
Add it up:
Greddy kit $1200
I/C Kit $550
BOV $100
Tony DP $250

That would leave you at least $500 for engine management. Except you'd have a system (minus managment) that is capable of over 200whp. Realistically add in another $100-200 for misc stuff you might need (oil feed/drain, upgraded hardware).

Not for everyone, but you did mention that you were cheap!

Jay
dont forget bigger injectors and possibly a wideband if you go engine management. BUT....MS kit $190, lc1 on ebay $160ish, and rx7 injectors $90ish. That still leaves you $60 for beer!!!!!
neogenesis2004 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2006, 12:44 AM   #16
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,833
Total Cats: 1,786
Default

BEGi knocks off a few bits of $$$ if you opt for a GT2554.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2006, 08:58 PM   #17
Senior Member
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: VT
Posts: 939
Total Cats: 0
Default

I think you have an excellent plan for buying a ready made kit. Being able to just PnP a kit is worth its time, especially when you don't have a place to work on a project for a week or two.

You'll learn a lot just from installing the kit and then you'll be able to work in all the upgrades as time as allows.

I don't understand why people buy houses when they are so easy to build yourself...

Last edited by Jefe; 11-16-2006 at 09:38 PM.
Jefe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2006, 09:08 PM   #18
Elite Member
iTrader: (13)
 
cjernigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 8,147
Total Cats: 6
Default

I wish like hell that my car had came with a BEGI or FM kit. I would be much more happy with it right now. I personally would not spend the money on one. But i respect the pain that the kits take out of the process with something that is ready to install and run with. They're good equipment but could be improved upon by doing some things yourself. Depends on whats more important to you. Your time or your money.
cjernigan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2006, 01:05 AM   #19
Senior Member
 
boostinsteve's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Honolulu, HI
Posts: 563
Total Cats: 0
Default

I would wait and try to build my own. Just like everyone has said, your first kit you do not know anything, and after you see the simplicity of a turbo system, you realize you could have built a better system for less money. I wish I would have known the information before.
boostinsteve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2006, 02:48 AM   #20
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 22
Total Cats: 0
Default

Thanks for the ideas guys. I'm sure once I've installed the kit the workings of a turbo will appear obvious, but until then I'll go with the FM kit and play it safe. I would love to support Corky, but the simplicity of the FM wins out.

Don't worry though, I promise I won't be one of those FM buyers that pays someone else to install the kit while I fly around in my solid gold jetplane I will be doing the work myself.

Looking forward to figuring out how these "turbo" things work.

Cheers!
johnxsi is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap Full_Tilt_Boogie Build Threads 57 07-19-2017 05:11 PM
Expected intake temps on the track? tazswing Race Prep 20 10-03-2015 12:04 PM
Noob to Miataturbo from MA JxPhan Meet and Greet 3 10-02-2015 03:17 AM
Walbro 255lph Fuel Pump $50 lsc224 Miata parts for sale/trade 2 10-01-2015 10:17 AM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:48 AM.