bs alignment - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


General Miata Chat A place to talk about anything Miata

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-08-2008, 09:03 PM   #1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Seven Valleys, PA
Posts: 639
Total Cats: 11
Default bs alignment

I think that the guy that did my alignment is full of ****.
I gave him FM's specs:
-Front
Caster: 5.0 degrees
Camber: 1.0 degrees negative
Toe: 1/16" total (1/32" per side)
-Rear
Camber: 1.5 degrees negative
Toe: 1/16" total (1/32" per side)

And he gave me this and said that he couldn't reach those specs:

Is this guy full of **** or is this a viable issue?
Can this be fixed with different bushings?
What is the least amount of camber that i can run with the 6UL 15x8 36mm wheels that i just ordered? My car is on FM's newer design springs with a ride height of 12.5F and 13R
Attached Thumbnails
bs alignment-alignment.jpg  
swimming108 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2008, 11:18 PM   #2
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,900
Total Cats: 0
Default

He can't get the camber in the front because he's got too much caster in it. Take it to a place that knows what they are doing.
Arkmage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2008, 11:25 PM   #3
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Seven Valleys, PA
Posts: 639
Total Cats: 11
Default

i will have to agree with you on the search for a new shop.

could you recommend some specs that i can instruct a new technician to shoot for.
swimming108 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2008, 11:56 PM   #4
Elite Member
iTrader: (39)
 
Zabac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: High Point NC
Posts: 4,854
Total Cats: 8
Default

I would run a bit more camber, but that's just me...
You should have them set the camber to your specs and then max out whatever caster you can get, but camber first...
Fm specs are good for a street car, I would not mess with them unless you plan on tracking or auto-x'ing, then it's a whole different ballgame.
You should go elsewhere, this guy souds lazy to me.
Word of advice, have them align it with you in the driver seat or a weight in your place if they don't allow you in the shop.
Zabac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2008, 12:05 AM   #5
Elite Member
iTrader: (12)
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 6,868
Total Cats: 66
Default

Strange....
Last time i got an alignment, i just walked in, handed them my specs and POOF! done.

I did:
front camber = -1.8 -1.9
toe = o

rear camber= -1.2 -1.2
toe = 0
Doppelgänger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2008, 12:17 AM   #6
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
miataspeed1point6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Detroit
Posts: 1,235
Total Cats: 0
Default

I get to do my own alignments, I love it.
miataspeed1point6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2008, 12:19 AM   #7
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,900
Total Cats: 1,793
Default

F:
-1.7
1/16" toe out
maxed( 4.x iirc)

R:
-2.3
1/16" toe in
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2008, 03:20 PM   #8
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,900
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppelgänger View Post
Strange....
Last time i got an alignment, i just walked in, handed them my specs and POOF! done.

I did:
front camber = -1.8 -1.9
toe = o

rear camber= -1.2 -1.2
toe = 0
wtf? it's odd to see more camber in the front on a miata. you do know it's not FWD right
Arkmage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2008, 04:07 PM   #9
Elite Member
iTrader: (12)
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 6,868
Total Cats: 66
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkmage View Post
wtf? it's odd to see more camber in the front on a miata. you do know it's not FWD right
No, but it gives the front more "bite" and allows me to adjust the rear swaybar for my driving style. Having more camber in the rear then the front makes the car understeer too much IMO.
Doppelgänger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2008, 05:07 PM   #10
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Delicious and Moist.
Posts: 26,328
Total Cats: 1,926
Default

Sounds like he may have mis-interpreted your specs, although it's interesting how little the left front numbers changed before / after.

Because of the design of the alignment mechanism, Camber and Caster interact. If you take one out to the extreme, it limits the range of the other. It's quite possible that -1° Camber and +5 Caster might not be achievable on your car, so you need to make it clear which one of those two measurements is more important.

When discussing settings with an alignment tech, the conversation should always go something as follows:

"I want -1.5° Camber on the front, and then as much positive Caster as you can get without sacrificing Camber, and while keeping the left and right equal." I've never actually given an alignment tech an actual number for Caster, just waited for him to say "That's all I can get" then checked to see that Camber was still where i wanted it and said "Ok, that's fine."

On my car, for example, the right front wheel is the limiting factor. Nothing is obviously bent or damaged, but at -1.5° Camber, that wheel will only go to about +4 Caster, so that's what both are set at.
Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2008, 05:09 PM   #11
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 14,372
Total Cats: 1,334
Default

Ride height? Dropping the **** out of your car lets you get a lot more caster and camber at the same time. I'm at 11.75" in the front, 2.3 camber, 5.9 caster.
Savington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2008, 05:32 PM   #12
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Delicious and Moist.
Posts: 26,328
Total Cats: 1,926
Default

He stated ride height as 12.5F, 13R in the OP. Seems pretty reasonable for a daily driver to me.
Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2008, 11:29 PM   #13
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Seven Valleys, PA
Posts: 639
Total Cats: 11
Default

thank you guys for all the great input.

i had no clue that the caster and camber could affect each other.
i think i know what i want to tell the technician now.
the only problem now is just finding a good tech and shop that i can trust
swimming108 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2008, 12:31 AM   #14
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Delicious and Moist.
Posts: 26,328
Total Cats: 1,926
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by swimming108 View Post
the only problem now is just finding a good tech and shop that i can trust
Locate the autocrossers in your area. They don't have to be Miata drivers, just racers. They probably have their own forum. Ask those guys who does their alignments, or search their forum. Ideally, you'll find everybody agreeing on the same half-dozen or so shops. Pick the one nearest you.
Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
15x10 - 15x11 6UL @ 949 Racing emilio700 Wheels and Tires 151 06-02-2017 03:36 PM
TunerStudio timining issue - 90 Miata 1.6 Turbo spec1sef MEGAsquirt 28 05-09-2017 08:03 AM
Replacing one tire nigelt Wheels and Tires 7 09-22-2015 01:32 PM
Twitchy car (tail happy problem) bigben Race Prep 16 09-11-2015 04:41 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:09 AM.