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Old 09-13-2009, 05:32 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Here's the thing though: most of us don't race like you guys. I completely understand when you say that real suspension costs money. Problem is: most of us won't even BEGIN to explore the limits of a suspension or push the car enough to actually feel a difference.

Go ride in an FCM Bilstein-equipped car. Your mother could tell the difference.
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Old 09-13-2009, 08:30 AM   #22
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If you don't have money to spend, get a FM kit with cheaper tophats, like NB or something, with decent bumpstops, or get some bilsteins that you can get rebuilt later and put coilover collars on. You will not be disappointed, and if you can't spend the change on some nice coilovers, you can't afford to get your **** corner weighted, so you are throwing good money after bad anyway.

I don't know how much my GAZ threaded body setup cost, but they are the squeakiest junkers, have 1 or 2 broken adjusters, crap bumpstops, etc. With these problems, I have NO confidence that the seals aren't blown and have **** their vital fluids, not to mention if they are equal side to side or repeatable in their operation. I would probably work on trading them out for someone's FM2 setup if I wasn't going to replace them with a FCM setup very soon. You will see them for sale on here soon, you can buy cheap coilovers then.
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Old 09-13-2009, 08:38 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
I want a drop just a tad bit lower than the fm2 springs give me. My only question would be what kind of spring rates they come with. It mentioned "racing" and "dr!fting" in the description so I'm assuming high spring rates.
18, why not just get a coilover kit, like ground control, with known low spring rates and throw them on your kyb's. You can drop to your heart's content then. Just don't get much higher rates than what are in your FM kit. Even switching from your AGX to some ebays will disappoint you at some point in the future, guaranteed.
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Old 09-13-2009, 09:00 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by webby459 View Post
18, why not just get a coilover kit, like ground control, with known low spring rates and throw them on your kyb's. You can drop to your heart's content then. Just don't get much higher rates than what are in your FM kit. Even switching from your AGX to some ebays will disappoint you at some point in the future, guaranteed.
Because KYBs blow. Hard. Had them. Won't again.

I'll debate that under 1k on shocks isn't useful... I rode in a car that had some 800$ Koni yellows and it was a revelation compared to stockish shocks.

Well thought out cheapish (NA bilstiens/Illuminas) are much better than the blown out crap the 100k stock shocks your car came with. That's worth money.
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Old 09-13-2009, 12:22 PM   #25
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Yes, keep buying ebay crap so i can have FTD every time I show up at the track.
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Old 09-13-2009, 12:30 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Serious post: Spending less than $1000 on shocks = waste of money
So the 200 dollar bilsteins I have... mean I shouldn't have been a few seconds below SM track record yesterday eh...

I do need a revalve badly.... so underdampened it is borderline uncomfortably hairy sometimes... but it works somehow.
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Old 09-13-2009, 03:13 PM   #27
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Bilstein's, FM springs, FM sways, FCM mounts and bump stops. If I could keep my end links tight and raise the ride height 1/2'' I would be completely pleased with my setup. Vastly improved ride and handling, lower ride height, and for less than $1000. Not race track worthy I'm sure, but for a fun and nimble street car its excellent.
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Old 09-13-2009, 03:22 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by p51hellfire View Post
the state in the ad that they have adjustable pillow ball mounts so that you can adjust camber yet in the photo there is no such!!
Miata doesn't use them to adjust camber, its done on the upper control arm with an eccentric. Most cars that use the strut to adjust camber are FWD turds, mustangs, and a few others.

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Because KYBs blow. Hard. Had them. Won't again.
Actually I'll disagree. For a street car which sees minimal auto-x, AGX's are good shocks.

My only $0.02 to add is Tein Monoflex ftw. Too bad my tires don't grip for **** and I get outhandled by a car w/130,000 mile agxs and Hankook tires on the street.

Those Raceland things look like garbage. For 300$, someone try em.
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Old 09-14-2009, 03:30 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Splitime View Post
So the 200 dollar bilsteins I have... mean I shouldn't have been a few seconds below SM track record yesterday eh...

I do need a revalve badly.... so underdampened it is borderline uncomfortably hairy sometimes... but it works somehow.
I like it how you doubt me, then talk about your $200 Bilsteins when you can't buy the same shocks for less than 3x that brand new, and then talk about how your shocks blow anyway.
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Old 09-14-2009, 03:51 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elesjuan View Post
Actually I'll disagree. For a street car which sees minimal auto-x, AGX's are good shocks.

My only $0.02 to add is Tein Monoflex ftw. Too bad my tires don't grip for **** and I get outhandled by a car w/130,000 mile agxs and Hankook tires on the street.

Those Raceland things look like garbage. For 300$, someone try em.
Agxs good? Good for what exactly? Yes, they're good stock replacements, but that's an extremely low bar.

Outhandled? I'd say you were outgripped. Fit a stock old mustang with 335 width r compounds, and it might be faster, but I'd hardly say it handled better. A lot of handling is setting up a car for a driver and their taste, which may make a faster car on average than a car tuned for the most grip. I'll use as an example some 60s race cars that were fast but scared the hell out of their drivers. Grip is something I can measure, but I'd debate that better handling is somewhat more subjective.

For only 300$ someone should try them? Go right ahead.
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Old 09-14-2009, 04:38 AM   #31
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so do bilsteins suck? or are they just good for the street? cuz im going to need shocks soon and i just dont kno what to get. i wont be tracking them...
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Old 09-14-2009, 05:31 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by pimphand82 View Post
so do bilsteins suck? or are they just good for the street? cuz im going to need shocks soon and i just dont kno what to get. i wont be tracking them...
If you're not tracking them... they're fine. They'll get you to walmart just fine.

Any shock will work for the street.

Beyond that, it's all about what you're looking for. Do some research, look around. Search m.net, people who never take their cars to the track are very common there.

Short answer: Go illuminas if you're going cheap.
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Old 09-14-2009, 11:39 AM   #33
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I like it how you doubt me, then talk about your $200 Bilsteins when you can't buy the same shocks for less than 3x that brand new, and then talk about how your shocks blow anyway.
I don't doubt you. I just don't feel anything beyond a competing race car requires expensive shocks.

Bilstein makes great shocks. The typical going price for used Miata Bilsteins is 200 bucks. I've got 8 full days and street time on mine, not blown. 700/400lb spring rates. Underdampened yes.... but not blown and the car turns darn well. Could it be better? Sure... do I have a desire to spend more than I paid for my car... on shocks? Hell no.

I'll be revalving them over the winter. Total shock cost will be under 500 bucks. For shocks that will handle what I toss at them spring wise.

You've become pretty cyincal over the last year Sav... not sure where that transition started... I guess its probably something to do with being annoyed I don't loose bolts on my setup and the fact that you are 8 seconds or something faster than SM cars... and thus deserve something?

Anyways. My season is over, budget is gone. Will be back out next year ready for more track fun.

Suspension setup:
Stock miata bilsteins - 200
Cut random bumpstops - misc parts box
ebay sleeves (omnipower) - 100
Custom nuts for NA shock with NB hat - 60
700/400lb rates - 40 (400 came with coilovers)
RB solid front bar - 100

Runs below SM times (since that is the "mark" to be under)... makes me smile.... what more is there?

Last day out... ah good times.
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Old 09-14-2009, 01:22 PM   #34
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Old 09-14-2009, 01:40 PM   #35
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If you're interested in them, buy them. I don't like my Miata enough to drop it's entire value into just suspension. If I was taking it to the track regularly then sure I would but for now I'm perfectly content with another "crappy" coilover setup (BC Racing). These will make you happier than whatever other new setup you can find for a similar price.
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Old 09-14-2009, 02:25 PM   #36
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It was an enormous improvement when I went from my GC/Bilstein set-up to Flex...huge. It was as much of a difference as adding 200whp to the car.
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Old 09-14-2009, 04:33 PM   #37
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The question is quickly becoming another "Which suspension is best thread". My thoughts are..do you trust something that advertises their suspension with a F&F style interlude?

The motions are predictable, if not already etched in your sub-conscious memory. Sure-footed, you mentally rehearse the game plan:

Wide Open Throttle Uphill. Heavy on the Brakes. Quick Left, then Quick Right Downhill.

And just like that, you confidently captured the moment of Corner Eight (C8).


<****> .. toss another 100-200 bucks in and get used stance, flex, whatever. At least its a proven product.
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Old 09-15-2009, 12:36 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splitime View Post
I don't doubt you. I just don't feel anything beyond a competing race car requires expensive shocks.

Bilstein makes great shocks. The typical going price for used Miata Bilsteins is 200 bucks. I've got 8 full days and street time on mine, not blown. 700/400lb spring rates. Underdampened yes.... but not blown and the car turns darn well. Could it be better? Sure... do I have a desire to spend more than I paid for my car... on shocks? Hell no.
You could put whatver crap shock you wanted on there, though, and the car would do what it does now: turn decentloy well, but be horribly underdamped and difficult to drive. Have you ever tried a NICE pair of shocks? Even a semi-decent pair? (KONI RACE, TEIN Flex)

Saying that your car doesn't need good shocks is like saying that it doesn't need r-compounds or good brakes - you can get away with not having them, but the car is a LOT better with those parts on.
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Old 12-11-2009, 08:40 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Newbsauce View Post
<****> .. toss another 100-200 bucks in and get used stance, flex, whatever. At least its a proven product.
let me find a used, functioning set of flexes or stance coilovers for 400-500...i'll buy them junks right now.
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Old 12-11-2009, 10:54 PM   #40
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Corner 8 > Moton
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