crazy swap idea.. VR6t
 

With all of the other engines that find their way into a Miata's bay, I'm pretty surprised I haven't seen any VR6 swaps. They're light(ish), bigger displacement, great sound, etc. There are even RWD versions. Oh, and they make sick, sick power when turbocharged :)

Has anyone entertained the thought or perhaps even seen one?

I'd love too, but its too much work. I still have a 2.9l forged motor in my garage that ran a t3/t04 and put down 380whp on a chip with an o2 clamp. Its a pretty tall motor though, I doubt it would fit. A 3.2 would be insane in a miata.

yes, it is the best sounding engine ever put together. I love getting two next to each other on the highway, and the cool dissonance.

By VR6, do you mean the engine in the Stealth/3000GT?

If so, it'd be easier to get a pushrod V8 in the engine bay than a DOHC V6, especially if it were twin-turbo'd. It'd be too tall and wide. As with anything, it could be done with enough time and money. Nevermind, I'm thinking of the VR4 :crx:

You're talking about VAG's VR6...narrow-angle V6? Yeah, that'd have a much better chance of fitting. Probably pretty tall engine, though.

or do a KLZE and call it a day!

or a CA-18DET/KA24DE (or maybe t? LOL)

(240 guys know what im talkin about)

Friend of mine is using a CA18DET for his Locost build :)

i'm seriously considering getting another NA and throwin a built CA in....it would be a beast...but then again so would a built supercharged KA24.....:eek5:

Dude, there's another 1.8L engine that was built to be turbo'd and would be much easier to swap in a Miata... [wait for it...wait for it]

It's the 1.8L BP Miata engine! :D

Seriously, I can't imagine swapping in another 4-cylinder of like displacement...makes no sense whatsoever.

a 1.8t vw motor is pretty sick. They are pretty much the only thing left, worth a shit. I'd love to do a direct injection motor too.

I agree though, a bp gets the job done.

me neither - nor something of another make when something of same will fit more easily

what about an evo engine

what about adding an extra hampster into the wheel?

Thats way too fucking expensive, and way too much upkeep involved.

Every time you add another hamster the maintenance goes up two fold, i thought everyone knew this...

Jesus, get real.

I know, I know. Hamster fuel is almost as expensive as avgas these days. But hamsters constantly have litters, and you sell off the babies to recoup costs. :gtfo:

topic<---- ----> yous guys

:)

Brian: the VW/Audi VR6, from 2.8-3.6 liters. My pref. would be the 24v 3.2L.

Ruger: SR20s are easier and have been done at least 3 times, that I've seen anyway. And they're the only AL 240SX engine IIRC.

Savior: for the hassle, if I was going to do a 2.0L 4cyl. I'd rather have an F20C or SR20DET. Both have been done and aren't as heavy as the EVO's closed-deck iron block, and they have RWD transmissions available.

Im the only person I think that would be stoked on a K series honda swap :)

do they still spin the wrong way?

Wouldn't it be cool if there was a mazda 2.0L that bolted up to the Miata trans and was stronger than the SR20det? ;)

That's crazy talk! Next you'll be saying it's possible to swap interiors:gay:

Probably. Most Honda engines do. But then F>K (more like F=K really but I won't get too technical) and the K hasn't been done yet, and doesn't have anything over on the F20C other than variable intake cam timing.

EDIT - Dammit. More freaking 4-banger talk. This is the 6s thread people, SIXES!

Where are you WOT?

how bout rb25..... rb26..... 2jz......

too long.

EDIT- this is a VR6:

http://wrdusa.com/Merchant2/graphics...ShortBlock.jpg

just so we're on the same page... packaging is key.

an fe3? that would be a pretty nice swap.

As for 6 cylinder motors, it seems like there was someone on the miata.net forums who was working on a 3.4L 6 swap from ... um a rover or something? Idk though ... something about a high revving 4 banger is what makes the miata what it is. It wouldnt feel right with torque at 1k :)

if only there was a miata trans capable of handling all the power this imaginary motor was able to produce under boost without the use of adapter plates. ;)

what if you imagined a six speed transmission?

it would be too good to be true :bowdown:

I still think a Maz KL with twin turbos would be sweet after seeing the KL swap photos. There's a guy with an mx3 running a single turbo KL making near 400whp... tho trannies don't last long.

Flipside just shoved a CA18 DET in an AE86. They have a conversion kit available as well.

The Vr6 is absolutely one of the hottest sounding engines ever built. They sound even better with 18 psi shoved down their throat. ;)

I bet!

So being that you're probably best to answer this question WOT, is there anything you can foresee as a huge headache for someone trying to accomplish this swap?

The new generation of Honda motors spin the right way.
I'd like to see an SR20VE swap. An alloy NA 4cylinder making 230whp would be very nice in a Miata.

Are the VR motors iron? Can't seem to recall. I'd like to see a built NA VR6... something about an equal length header with 6 runners is very appealing.

VR6 would certainly be original. I like the idea of waiting for them to mazda speed the new Miata motor with a DISI head and getting that bad mother swapped in.

I <3 the new Disi system...so much good engineering, and no need to swap to larger injectors. (not to mention i don't think there could possibly be injectors with more PSI).

Low end torque would be pretty bomb, for well drifting anyway...torque that doesn't stop would be great.

On a side note though, my plans for my own block is not to bring torque down lower (though I do plan for quick spooling turbo. so i do to a degree) but rather when all is said and done I plan to boost and rev to 8700. Not incredi-high but still safe IMO. Along the way I will def. need a coolant re-route else as RPM find themselves over 7000 things might get melty.

you'll need a different valve train too

miata + Itb 20b > else

f-ing right

As in a 3 rotor?

I'd agree if it weren't for the size weight and cost.

don't forget reliability
:nuts:

Actually it isn't that big of a deal if you keep them NA.

20B = big, heavy, long, unreliable, expensive, inefficient. Next?

Me = Puerto Rican. And I still hate the damn things.

Hurm. Honda K20A1 longblock for sale locally... it spins the right way... I wonder how nasty a project it would be...

engine codes are meaningless to me... what car is that from? S2000? I know the S2000 swap has been done before with positive results.

RSX motor. Not F22 (s2000) unfortuantly. Both spin the right way though... doubtful its worth the time fabricating though.

Do the Honda motors come with the big ass body kit and the annoying APC wing?

No, they come with underglow, short shifters, cold air and catbacks. The wing and body kit is something you get added on in your apartment parking space.

Actually they come with 100+hp per liter NA. The crap comes with the owners of the cars. Same as the Miatas with 80 pounds of polished bits in the cabin and under the hood, not a fault with the car just the idiots that own them.

If you are remotely serious... realize that my last stock longblock (non-turbo) honda... had zero issues passing greddy powered miatas on track. I was passing evos/m3s and such... do you really think that only ricers drive hondas?

If you really think what you said.... as owners of miatas we are all gay or women... or both.

Keep the shit talking back in HS please.

btw... stock k20-T setups are yielding 400+ setups. F22 even more.

stock as in "never opened"? wow. :eek5:

Power is in the head which is Hondas' specialty.

Yah, the newer motors have shown alot of potential.

Unless memory fails me, the f22 internals are forged.... so with the larger displacement and more boost...

Oh, did i mention the k20-T's are doing 400+ on 93?

Great motors, one of the reasons I'll always work on Hondas... so damn easy to work on and fun to make power with.

but... I'm super excited to finish my miata build. I had my fwd track car.. now its rwd time.

I found this movie of an K20 engine in a 900kg Citroen Saxo. They put it in the rear, so it's rwd now :bigtu:

http://www.autoblog.nl/archive/2007/...rwd-met-220-pk

K20 engines are pretty damn sweet. Honda deffinately know's their shit with head work. Make sure you get the one from the RSX that way you have the 200hp with oil squirters and all the good stuff.

Along the lines of the Citroen, a friend of mine who has already built one of the most unique DSM's. (GSX Spyder) Is now building a RWD Spyder GS-T by moving the motor to the back like a MR2.

There are some other cheap alternatives, I know V6's might be a hard fit especially in DOHC form, but a popular MR2 swap is from a 4 banger to the V6's they put in things like Camry, lots of availability, so cheap and apparently it fits.

The K20 to get is the K20A2 (RSX-S) and not the K20A3 from the EP Si and base RSX, just to further your point Eva. Hell, you could even try for the K20Z from the new Si coupes but they run an AFM and the ECU is pretty tough to crack.

Those sound expensive for my 17 year old NA - I did my swap because it was dirt cheap. What does a K20 cost? Does it bolt up to a honda rwd trans?

I know someone with the RSX-S engine in a RWD civic (crazy Canadians)... the transmission is a custom job and not cheap. I'd assume he would have used the s2K trans if it bolted up.

I'd think so too. That's where the price just keeps going up- beyond the engine. My FE was $900 delivered and got my TurboII trans for free. The bellhousing to bolt the two together will be ~$300 delivered. I'll just need to build an adapter to bolt the ppf to the TII trans and get a hybrid drive shaft made.

Yah, there is a local motor for sale for like 300... but all the custom work just kills the functionality of a swap like this. It becomes a look at me/showcar swap and not a fun track car swap anymore.

But can you reproduce it for $900?

what about one of those v8's made out of 2 hayabusa engines, 300hp, na, some retarded redline, all aluminum.

I really want to see one in a super7/similar

Those V8s run about $20k...for just the engine.

I think there's a few places that sell OE Mazda FE3s for $1k delivered - one in Miami and one in NC somewhere. Is that the right answer? :confused: I'm talking a bone stock, unopened Mazda FE3, not a stroker.

http://miata.net/motm/2007/snell.html

Hope the link works. It's the dotnet MOTM, a blue Miata with a KL V6. From the sound of it it's the closest thing to a VR6 that wouldn't require me to "pioneer" the swap in my non-existant garage. And, from the looks of it, there's plenty of room for 2 log-style manifolds and some spinny things...

He's got a post that summarizes all his work- and there was a LOT of it. Far more work than the V8 route, and more than I'd want to do for V6. Though I fully understand the appeal. I had a 95 626 v6 5spd and loved that engine- and the car too. At just under 2900lbs it was quick and fun.

hey m2cupcar, what did you use for motor mounts? was the FE compatible with some flavor of miata mount?

You can see a picture of the customized Miata mounts on his page right here: http://roadsterrage.com/rob/pages/7895.htm