Electric water pump conversion?
 

Ok so ive been searching for weeks on this topic and im so over coming up with no leads so can someone please explain this, because the stock water pump is ugly and in the way.

97 1.8

Ugly, and in the way? It works perfectly fine.

oh boy here we go.
another retard

I recall someone doing a reverse-flow electric pump conversion several years ago, however this is by no means a common modification on the Mazda B-series engine. Empirically speaking, the stock water pump has proven to be extraordinarily reliable, and entirely adequate to support proper cooling at power levels sufficient to destroy the transmission and break the engine block.

In other words, if you decide to install an electric water pump, you are on your own. There is no community knowledge-base for this.


In the way of what, exactly?

Hahahhaha

Oh wait, you're serious. 0/10

Op didn't google. http://www.daviescraig.com.au/Electr...s-content.aspx remote water pump, took less then one minute.

The guy with the black NA that drag races it has an electric water pump if I'm not mistaken. I think it's pretty cool. He has Webbers too I think

That would be me.

Ah there it is, I always thought that setup was really cool. Dumb question, but is it on a toggle switch or something or is it on all the time when the key is on?

Another dumb question, but how/where does it flow through the radiator? It look like from pictures it goes mixing manifold>water pump>back of head?

I run it on a toggle switch. I keep it off at initial start up, and then cycle it on and off till the water warms up.

The pump has two outlets. The one on the bottom goes to the bottom radiator fitting. The one on top goes to the heater.

I am redoing all the plumbing when I get the motor back in. There were a few design flaws that I need to fix. I plan to have water enter both the front and rear of the head.

I love electric water pump, theory is great, you run a PWM pump, so it is controlled by ECU. say you want 200F water temp, slow pump till you get to 200F, then fast if you hit 201F. this way, temperature is constant...

great idea, will probably build one later.

Is that -10 on the top and -12 on the bottom? I personally have always been very interested in how you did it. If you ever get a chance I'd like to see more pictures of your setup.

The top is 8 or 10....can't remember. The bottom one you see is a 12. You could simply have a barb on the pump and put on a radiator hose instead. I wanted a baller look and chose the braided line.

Since it is not very visable, the bottom is a simple 90 degree radiator hose. I chose the pump location for easy simple installation and to have the shortest run possble for plumbing. Turbo cars may need to have the pump on the other side of the motor. I have seen this on a big turbo Miata before.

If you look closely, you will see that the old mechanical pump is still there. I simply pressed out out the impeller and welded a cap where the shaft exists the housing. I think with some applications, you could simply reuse the old water hose barb. I wanted a cleaner look, so I cut it off and welded an AN fitting.

I am a fan of SS lines and AN fittings so if I ever did it like yours, it would also be baller SS stuff. Not cheap hose barbs lol. Is the pump quiet or loud?

The pump is absolutely silent. It is hard to tell it is running without pulling the cap and looking to see circulating water.

What advantages did you find?

Are you running reverse flow?

The system will end up oscillating between slow and fast due to too much lag between speeding up the pump, then temps at the engine outlet finally dropping.

Better to proportionally go from very slow to max, over a 10* span. Better yet, controller also looks at radiator outlet temp as a part of its algorithm. And injector duty cycle ;)

I did it to make more power. You can also cool the car quicker by running it with the engine off.

I did reverse the flow.

Too bad you're not FI, it would be very interesting to see if the reverse flow improves knock resistance by reducing cylinder head temps.
And if the total cooling system capacity is enough.

Which pump did you use? Are you running water + EG (ethylene glycol) coolant?

Well I will be running nitrous which skyrockets cylinder head temps. It is one of the reasons I built it this way.

I did have a stock radiator, and found it difficult to maintain a high enough operating temperature under normal driving conditions. I am working on a solution to correct the problem. I would like to be able to adjust the performance of the cooling system for various conditions.

I am running a universal remote pump from CSR. I run EG/water for street use, but run straight water at the track for safety/rule issues.

Are you running a thermostat? I wouldn't imagine so if you are controlling when the pump is on. About how much hp do you think was freed up by doing that?

I am running a thermostat that has been gutted. The reason was to restrict the water flow and speed. Without it, the water flows too violently.

It is hard to say how much power at this point. When I changed to the electric pump, I also changed cylinder head and carb chokes. I picked up 5 tenths in the quarter mile with the combined changes on my normally aspirated set up on the first night of testing. I have since torn it apart for other changes and a rebuild.

It is enough that not a single well funded team in drag racing will run without it if the rules allow.

I seem like a have so many questions. So when you do it you want to flow through the front and back of the head, right? Would you do that with a Y fitting off the outlet on the pump?

No problem. Here to help.

On my set up, I have water coming from the top of the radiator into the cylinder head. I plan to have a Y coming out of the radiator and then going to both the front and back of the head.

There is one other problem I need to make you aware of. It was suggested that if the water level was low, that it would stop flowing. I have not experienced this problem yet, but need to test to see how low I can go before the water stops circulating.

If it seems to create an unsafe situation, then I will probably switch to a cross flow radiator. You could also fill the radiator from the top, and pull water from the bottom. That solution would not look as good.

subscribed for more real world experience. I'm going to run a Pierburg/BMW electric pump on my swap and an Arduino to control it per jasonC's recommendation.

miata2fast if you plan to put a Y and feed water into both front and back of the head, you probably will need a restrictor into the front, else the front will hog the flow which is worse than the rear getting all the flow.

Interesting that the BMW/Pierburg electric pump is about half the price of the aftermarket CSR and Moroso pumps out there.

That's the Pierburg CWA200 for those interested.

https://www.miataturbo.net/general-miata-chat-9/electrical-engineers-needed-dc-motor-control-64636/

Meziere also makes some nice and somewhat affordable electric waterpumps.

Since we're talking about electric pumps. I just picked up an MRS electric PS pump to throw in my car. Built in ECU/pump/res and takes the stock NB VSS speed sensor signal. Looking forward to seeing how it does. Best part of all of this, is I can adjust the intensity by getting a voltage regulator.

Okay, I have another question, actually a few more. Just one for now. Say I replaced my stock water pump with an electric one similar to miata2fasts and plumbed it all with -12 fittings and hose (which has an ID of .750 if I'm not mistaken) with a gutted t-stat, a Y fitting going to the front and back of the head, with a restricted hose to the front... Would the -12 be suffient for a street/track car?

Yes.

I have seen this done on other applications. I would feed the pump with a 12, and come out of the radiator with a 12 to the Y and restrict it to a 10 to each side of the head. If I recall, a 10 was about the size of the heater hose.

I believe feeding both ends with a 12 is overkill, and will add unnecessary weight.

Good, because they make a -12 inlet with -10 outlets... I am intrigued now...

Only if we had a like button on here :hsugh:

Bump. Want to see if there's more feedback or data on this subject.

This would seem to be a no brainer for AutoX Prepared classes. You get more power to the wheels, take weight off the front, and reduce heat soak between runs. I've been copying the top CSP guys in spraying water on my Intake Manifold and radiator between runs. An Electric water pump would allow me to flow water through the system too. Unfortunately we are not allowed to change flow direction in Prepared.

With a 1.8L D-Prepared Miata the weight limit is so easy to hit, you could run a 70-100+ lb battery and eliminate both alternator AND mechanical water pump. For us NA guys, this may actually be cheap HP. I'd LOVE to learn emperical data on WHP gains.

There is a possibility that I will put back the mechanical pump on my next rebuild. I have a few design issues that I need to address with my electric water pump, and am wanting to get my motor up and running as soon as my budget allows. Not having the electric will save me some time and money.

There are no gaurantees, but I will try to get either elapsed times or dyno numbers from before and after electric pump.

I'll post relevant links here:

Stewart Components Elct Water Pump, rated for 10K hrs, 4 lbs, $400, assume 38gpm per model no.

Davies Craig Electric Water Pumps (power claims are suspect)

MiataRoadster is selling the "Golden Eagle", claims 3-7 HP gain: Rated for 7K hrs. Pricy at $450, no weight or flow info

Chevy Article (wish they had done a stock config baseline)

An RX8 forum thread

DP Miata set up as I'd like to do for mine (Full loss)

Interesting. This was Keith Brown's car in 2010 or 2011 in grid at nationals.

Offending verbage: "The direction of water flow through the engine shall not be changed
from that which was original for the engine unless authorized in
Appendix A."


My DP car should debut later this month, so this thread is quite relevant.
:shrug:

Edit:
Reread the thread, I didn't realize that 2fast has completely reversed the direction of flow. THAT I'm sure is illegal, but I think a reroute is considered ok.

tpwalsh, I only know a handfull of guys w/DP cars, and I'm totally open to info sharing. Feel free to pm me, and hopefully I can do the same. Here's my DP build/conversion thread.

FWIW I have a coolant reroute too, this was debated and accepted by SCCA AFAIK (but not first hand knowledge), as long as the flow remains bottom to top, and same direction through the radiator, we are good for DP.

miata2fast I am unclear if you street this car or just drag race, do you have the block grouted? If I was going to do this with a drag only car (have done this on non Miata) I would have coolant from pump into one end of head, and out the other, with grout, and virtually no flow in the block (un necessary to cool the block in drag only, and can actually make better power not cooling it).

I have been looking at the electric pumps for my next build, for road race, and will grout the block partially, with reverse cool. This will be a high compression, NA, ITB motor, and hope to control some detonation, have used it with great results. I am a fan of Evans coolant, and have/will also use it.

Let us know how the evans coolant goes. I've been very interesting in switching to it once I take care of my leaks.

I have not personally used grout before, but know of a few that have. I was under the impression that grout was used to strengthen the bottom end and nothing more.

I have seen one racer that overfilled the block with grout, and he had problems with heat soak. Once the block got hot, it would not cool down enough to make it from round to round. Motors running alcohol are more forgiving to grout filled blocks.

I am not so sure it is a good idea to fill a BP motor to the top with grout. Maybe it would work, but it would be one hell of an expensive experiment. I personally am not willing to try it because I do enjoy driving the car from time to time, and plan on future road coarse trackday excursions.

I'll add this link to the relevant list:
https://www.miataturbo.net/engine-pe...troller-69420/

As someone who does not follow drag racing at all, I had never even heard of this concept. I've been googling it and have found numerous discussions as to technique, one product vs. another, and so forth. But I have yet to find a clear answer to one question:

Why on earth would you want to fill the cooling jackets of the block with solid material?

I understand that in a drag-race application, the engine is run only for short periods of time, and thus, cooling the engine is not a high priority. In the air-cooled VW world, the "serious" drag racers don't run fans, and the cylinders and heads which they use have minimal cooling fins as compared to street-type components.

But in all seriousness, what is the supposed advantage of pouring grout into the engine to fill the cooling jacket? Especially in the context of a road-race engine?

I would imagine it's to keep coolant from getting in there, while still flowing through the head?

It's really about adding strength to the cylinder bores. Cast is quite flexible, and they like to shift about.

You don't (normally) fill the water jacket to the top, and coolant still circulates. Think about where the heat is, mostly at the top (cylinder head) from the combustion process. Proper cooling in the head produces more power, and controls detonation.

The bottom of the motor is not where a lot of heat is produced. Some cars have trouble getting oil up to temperature, and once it is at temperature, it is actually quite capable of controlling temperature. (with proper oil cooler) Higher temp in the bottom end can also free up some power. (Mean effective pressure effects)

Relying on the oil cooler to manage the bottom end, and the water cooling has a better chance at managing head temp.

So if you control head temp, and control bottom end temp, the net result is more power.

It is used in faster class drag racing where motors are pushed to the point where block failures occur. Never in road race or any other circumstance where the motor is running for any length of time. Consider that a small block V8 making 800 hp in a road race car would be considered very stout, but it might take 1800 hp to barely qualify in some drag racing classes. That kind of power is real hard on blocks.

When you fill the block with grout it is harder for a cylinder wall to blow apart from extreme cylinder pressure from high boost or large doses of nitrous. It can help stabilize the crankshaft as well. I think some builders will grout a motor in an attempt to get a tad bigger bore size. The down side, regardless of the circumstance, is that a motor can't run very long, and once hot, is very difficult to cool down. Since most big boy drag racers are using aftermarket blocks, it is not used much anymore in the big classes, really for the folks that are budget minded or have no access to good blocks.

found this interesting on the filled block topic.

751WHP stock sleeve hoodrat setup block full of concrete!WTF - Honda-Tech