Give me a good reason to not to buy a PLX DM-6 wideband O2 sensor - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 08-27-2012, 04:47 PM   #1
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Default Give me a good reason to not to buy a PLX DM-6 wideband O2 sensor

This WB kit vs an LC-1. With gauges, they work out to the same price. Except the PLX gauge is badass and way above and beyond anything else I have seen so far.

Also, a comparison from over 5 years ago is not a good reason. I highly doubt that nothing has changed in those 5 years.

Anyone have some relevant data? Like something from this decade at least?

I really like the idea of the multi-gauge, but I don't want to buy a shitty wideband just because it comes with a cheap touch-screen multi-gauge. Which looks awesome.
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Old 08-27-2012, 05:49 PM   #2
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Can't speak for the DM-6 display, but i've got the same SM-AFR sensor module in there

Seems to work pretty well for me in a multi-gauge setup
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Old 08-27-2012, 06:02 PM   #3
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Cool. I saw that you and Faeflora both use the sm-afr at least. That is the part that I care about.

I don't want to buy a **** O2 sensor because it comes with a cool gauge.

I also don't want to buy an LC-1 because a 5 year old review said it was better.

I want some of the LC-1 fanbois to come in here and berate me for even thinking about this, but with some not-5-year-old data to argue with.
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Old 08-27-2012, 06:03 PM   #4
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I use SM-AFR. I have had pretty good luck with it. Solders did break off on one of the connectors at one point and I had to open up the case. Thats about it.
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Old 08-27-2012, 09:06 PM   #5
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I have the PLX DM-100, DM-6, AFR module, Fluid Temperature module (connected to oil and water sensors) and Fluid pressure module (connected to oil pressure sender) and reckon they're great despite the hassle of wiring it all in. See my build thread for details: mx5cartalk.com • View topic - Lokiel's "Gina" (2004 Titanium SE)

The PLX AFR sensor does not need periodic fresh-air calibration so that's a bonus over some other sensors. I'd recommend an annual "de-gunking" of the AFR sensor though since they will accumulate a lot of carbon deposits which will affect it.

I mounted the DM-6 on the A-pillar so that I can manually cycle through the display of other sensor data via it's "touch-spots", though I typically leave it on AFR.

The DM-100 is great since it can display multiple sensor data at once and you don't need to clutter up your cabin and find space to mount all the gauges. I mounted mine in the OEM water temperature gauge location - now all of my cluster gauges are actually functional and I don't need to take my eyes off the road to read them.

The only issues I have is that with the roof down, the glare on the DM-100 when the sun is behind you makes it hard to read and the fact that it can be hard to read during the day unless it's displaying white text on a black background. I tend to use the 4-sensor mode on the DM-100 only. These are DM-100/200 issues only, the DM-6 is easy enough to read.



PS: Fooger03, I thought I was the first to install the DM-100 into an MX5 cluster - my "pioneering points" have just been slashed in half :P
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Old 08-27-2012, 09:34 PM   #6
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That's pretty cool. I agree on the fewer gauges principle, so I will have to think about a DM-100 in the future. Right now I don't have a garage, and I am not about to remove the dashboard without a garage to sort all that **** out.

Also I thought it was funny that you Aussies even have your user information on the wrong side (on mx5cartalk.com)! <-----it goes over there, like the steering wheel and pedals!

Edit: Also holy **** your thread over there is awesome. You make great instructions. I will definitely have to read through the hole thing (I had to skip to the end to make sure you got rid of those hideous 17 inch wheels).

Last edited by thenuge26; 08-27-2012 at 10:11 PM.
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Old 08-28-2012, 12:30 AM   #7
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LC-1 + VEI AFR/boost combo gauge. No sensor boxes to chain together, quality is good and readable in everything but direct sunlight. They have a very nice matte finish. Just got my oil temp/pressure gauge in the mail today actually.
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Old 08-28-2012, 01:17 AM   #8
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My LC-1 has been rock solid. I have not had to recalibrate it in free air since I installed it. I probably will this winter for the hell of it, and make sure it doesn't have carbon on it etc. How do I know it's still calibrated? Under closed loop it still bounces around 14.7 as it did when brand new.

I recall a wideband shootout on m.net showing that the LC1 had the fastest response time and excellent accuracy. Can't find it at the moment. I'm wiped from my trackday and I've had a couple beers at this point so I'm shutting the brain down for tonight. Maybe someone else can find the thread I'm thinking of.
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Old 08-28-2012, 01:45 AM   #9
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My MTX-L is legible in direct sunlight.
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Old 08-28-2012, 02:25 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lokiel View Post
PS: Fooger03, I thought I was the first to install the DM-100 into an MX5 cluster - my "pioneering points" have just been slashed in half :P
I like the way your cluster is set up, it looks good like that. If two people put that gauge in the cluster independent of one another, then it must be a pretty good idea!!
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Old 08-29-2012, 04:07 PM   #11
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I was an LC-1 fan boy until it died after less than 1 year. Did a search about LC-1 failures and was surprised to find out they have an extremely high failure rate (over 50% according to some polls).
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Old 08-30-2012, 08:31 AM   #12
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The LC1 is a great wideband choice IF, you want to spend only 100 bucks and only use it for tuning with no gauge, and you put the sensor in the right spot, and you dont put the controller anywhere that gets hot. Now if you want more than that, the last data I saw put the NTK sensor as the most accurate, pretty much the most accurate anyone here would ever need because no one here is really tuning to the very hairy edge, so we dont need a $30k lab grade, accurate to the 0.00001 afr sensor. No idea on the reliability of it. Speedwise, do you really worry? Proper setup of an LC1 involves slowing it down to average the last 1/12th of a second together because most logging software cant log at the speed an LC1 will put out when its in instant mode.

Cant comment either way on the PLX stuff. I've heard its good but never run into it.
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Old 08-30-2012, 08:49 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeSR View Post
I was an LC-1 fan boy until it died after less than 1 year. Did a search about LC-1 failures and was surprised to find out they have an extremely high failure rate (over 50% according to some polls).
That's ridiculous. I've had 6 LC or LM-1s (have two in my V8 Miata now) with never a failure. You aren't going to get everyone who doesn't have a failure answering a poll.

Of course LC-1 is going to have more hits on failures. Innovate probably outsells every other company combined by at least a 10-1 factor.

That said, the DM-100 looks good. I currently have a similar gauge called an Aeroforce interceptor which does OBDII and WBO2 inputs but it can only view two parameters at once. It also cycles through any combination of parameters the user wishes.
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Old 08-30-2012, 08:52 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fmowry View Post
That's ridiculous. I've had 6 LC or LM-1s (have two in my V8 Miata now) with never a failure. You aren't going to get everyone who doesn't have a failure answering a poll.

Of course LC-1 is going to have more hits on failures. Innovate probably outsells every other company combined by at least a 10-1 factor.

That said, the DM-100 looks good. I currently have a similar gauge called an Aeroforce interceptor which does OBDII and WBO2 inputs but it can only view two parameters at once. It also cycles through any combination of parameters the user wishes.
Most of the local dyno operators are not a fan of the LC-1, citing failures.

I haven't had any real issues with mine yet, but there's better units on the market these days.
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Old 08-30-2012, 08:56 AM   #15
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Old 08-30-2012, 09:09 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
Most of the local dyno operators are not a fan of the LC-1, citing failures.

I haven't had any real issues with mine yet, but there's better units on the market these days.
Most local dyno operators aren't using LC-1s and only care about them if the car owner is complaining that the dyno WB (which is usually downstream of a cat) doesn't match their car WB.

And again, dyno operators are seeing 20 Innovate WBs for every PLX, dynojet, or whatever other personal WB so the failure rate is going to reflect that.

I've probably been to 10 dyno days between my DSM, Subaru Forester, and 3 Miatas and never saw an LC1 failure.

And how many failures are install/user errors. No calibration, sensor too close to turbo, not clocked to avoid moisture, etc.

Again, I don't really care either way. My **** works.
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Old 08-30-2012, 09:11 AM   #17
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I hear ya. AEMs are probably most common 'round these here parts, but it is what it is.

I'm in the "mine's working, so **** it" camp. I probably won't buy another one, though.
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Old 08-30-2012, 11:49 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fmowry View Post
:
And how many failures are install/user errors. No calibration, sensor too close to turbo, not clocked to avoid moisture, etc.
:
"sensor too close to turbo" is probably THE biggest reason for LC1 failure if you take the time to read through issues people have had with their LC1s. Some fools simply swap out their NB sensor with a WB sensor and wonder why it dies so quickly.

If you don't heed manufacturer recommendations then you should expect to have issues.

I had an LC1 prior to my PLX AFR sensor and had no issues with it - I only replaced it because the PLX DM-6+AFR gauge kit was good value and I wanted a DM-6 anyway so would have needed to find another place to move the Innovate gauge.
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Old 08-31-2012, 10:27 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lokiel View Post
Some fools simply swap out their NB sensor with a WB sensor and wonder why it dies so quickly.
Wait, can I do this when I am N/A? I planned on just swapping my stock sensor with the wb when I get a MS3x. Am I going to have to pull the DP off and get a new bung welded on? I was hoping everything would be plug-n-play until I get to FI land.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godless Commie
Actually, that was my inspiration to not clutter up my interior with gauges. Very good chance I will do something like this in the future.
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