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Old 09-17-2009, 02:44 PM   #41
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Connect all IC piping, get new plugs, maybe wires while you are at it. Start the car and run for a while, if it's still running like ****, pull the plugs and look for anything obvious. Maybe do a compression test at this point to see if there is any cylinder ugliness. A light service will be in order before you go too much further: maybe new fuel, fuel filter, etc.

Once running well enough at a standstill, make sure all IC piping is tight, maybe take this opportunity to take it apart and clean and paint it. Please, once it's running well enough, clean that ****** up a little, I for one don't want to see such ugly bay pics again, and if you want to post more pics, stand back a little and post full bay pics. Your pics make me dizzy and not want to help you any longer.

Get the link manual and read it front to back. Get your laptop to connect to the link, but don't make any changes! GET A WIDEBAND O2 SENSOR. If the link can datalog with the wideband, hook it up so it does so. If not, get a WB02 that can datalog! Take this opportunity to set baseline timing.

Call a reputable dyno operator, see if he can work with the link. If he can't, if he can at least work with efi standalones, good enough, all the standalones do the same fundamental things: VE, spark, and maybe AFR targeting if available. If it runs well enough, and can roll, get it to the dyno. Don't be a dick and ask for moar power. Get a reasonable tune with conservative timing values. Use this opportunity to see if your WBO2 is reading true to the dyno's numbers.

Now you can be reasonably sure your **** won't blow up when you get in boost. Further, you have a baseline car and setup that you can work from. When it's running really well, you may want to do full service: timing belt and water pump, look at the rad and replace if necessary (with a heavy duty one, no less), change all the fluids out, check the belts, etc.

As mentioned before, get it aligned to check for suspension damage. Take care to look at the a-arms and the front subframe for bendage. Change out the brakes and brake fluid, you will die if you keep the **** that's in there now! Make sure your caliper slides are nice and free, and lube them up while doing brake service.

Tell us what you are doing with the car: track, autocross, drift, canyon runs, etc. That is not enough wheel for a strong turbo car, so don't waste a bunch of $$ on tires for those without thinking about some 8" wide wheels (at least), especially if tracking or autocrossing. Pay attention to how your suspension works, the shocks may be old, but you may be able to rebuild/revalve those konis, do some searching around for that. If you want to track the car, find some local scca spec miata racers, they can help you with suspension setup and look over the car. Sell me your front sway bar for cheap, I really want it, and you don't.

If any of this doesn't make sense to you, you really need to do more research. I am a total noob, and some of these are the steps I have already taken to make an already well built car to meet my specific needs.
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Old 09-17-2009, 02:52 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pasha View Post
i tried starting it with the ic pipes disconnected and it ran rather rough. Keith is saying that it does not matter if they are connected or not, since its running a map sensor, no MAF. .
If there is something disconnected downwind of the map, it will not run correctly. Connect the pipes and run it.
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Old 09-17-2009, 03:06 PM   #43
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@webby459. thanks for the comprehensive response. much appreciated.
now a few followup questions.

any recommendations on the plugs? gap? .. but i guess i can search for that.
cylinder ugliness = low compression?
engine bay cleaning will happen after its running.
WIDEBAND O2 SENSOR - not much experience here.. this will tell me if im running rich or lean?

everything else is quite understandable and reasonable.
thanks for taking the time to write that up.
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Old 09-17-2009, 03:15 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pasha View Post
@webby459. thanks for the comprehensive response. much appreciated.
now a few followup questions.

any recommendations on the plugs? gap? .. but i guess i can search for that.
cylinder ugliness = low compression?
engine bay cleaning will happen after its running.
WIDEBAND O2 SENSOR - not much experience here.. this will tell me if im running rich or lean?

everything else is quite understandable and reasonable.
thanks for taking the time to write that up.
Cylinder ugliness=low compression and especially unequal numbers. Search for the normal range you should be looking for.
Search for the gap, and good luck, mine runs .025 with no blow out on a plug originally gapped at .040.
Clean the ******* engine bay.
WB-wikipedia.com

And, dude, for real, use the search function a little. Maybe I have a weakness for noobs with ready-built cars that need some help (me being one), but even I am not above flaming your ------ *** when I feel inclined. And maybe tell us what you are doing with the car, it will matter.
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Old 09-17-2009, 03:38 PM   #45
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will do some searches..
i found a box of old spark plugs in the trunk and someone wrote .044 on the box.. guess thats a hint..

what am i going to do? for the most part, run around town, drive it every other day, or so.. i have another car that im keeping and this will be my "other car". eventually i would like to do some autox and maybe some some drift. imo, too early to think about that, got to get her fixed first.

i do realize that autox and drift are completely different setups...
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Old 09-17-2009, 04:46 PM   #46
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Quote:
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If there is something disconnected downwind of the map, it will not run correctly. Connect the pipes and run it.
Want to see video proving otherwise? Stop posting incorrect info
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Old 09-17-2009, 05:11 PM   #47
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Want to see video proving otherwise? Stop posting incorrect info
Not that I need proof or don't believe you, but if you have one, I'll take a look. Would that not mess up the map signal the ecu was getting vis. what the manifold was 'seeing' for pressure/vac?
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Old 09-18-2009, 01:59 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by webby459 View Post
Not that I need proof or don't believe you, but if you have one, I'll take a look. Would that not mess up the map signal the ecu was getting vis. what the manifold was 'seeing' for pressure/vac?
The map signal is referenced from the manifold, how is an intercooler pipe going to affect it? Most of us built our cars, you bought yours as it sits, who do you think is right?
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Old 09-18-2009, 10:08 AM   #49
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on a side note...
as i was working on the car yesterday and today at 6AM before work!!!
... a thought came to me, i wish i had a nice clean base car that i could just strap stuff on too.. man, i would be so much simpler... here i have to take crap off, inspect, fix, put it back on... blah blah.. seems like double the work...

so you guys need to lay off the whole being ******** because "i built my car and you bought yours." because its a different set of crap that ppl have to go through with a built car. now if you spent mega bucks and the car is perfect, that maybe a different sorry, but ****.. good for you, if you can allow your self that.

/rant!!!
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Old 09-18-2009, 10:21 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pasha View Post
on a side note...
as i was working on the car yesterday and today at 6AM before work!!!
... a thought came to me, i wish i had a nice clean base car that i could just strap stuff on too.. man, i would be so much simpler... here i have to take crap off, inspect, fix, put it back on... blah blah.. seems like double the work...

so you guys need to lay off the whole being ******** because "i built my car and you bought yours." because its a different set of crap that ppl have to go through with a built car. now if you spent mega bucks and the car is perfect, that maybe a different sorry, but ****.. good for you, if you can allow your self that.

/rant!!!
-Having a clean base car doesn't make it much easier if you don't know what the **** you're doing.
-Most members here will always be harsh with you. Just gotta learn not to be a ***** and take a lashing every now and then.
-Mega bux does not equal perfect running car. Most setups here are done on the cheap, but with lots of thought and work put into them. They work well.

Anyhow, what's the progress? Have you started the car yet?
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Old 09-18-2009, 11:29 AM   #51
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only had a bout an hour and a half to work on it yesterday.. fixed some body stuff, pulled off the IC and some IC piping. got the piping resprayed . any idea how hot the IC piping gets?

today the plan is to do a little more body work, reconnect the piping, put some fresh 93 in and try to start it up. if its still acting up, ill pull the plugs and see whats going on there..

unfortunately i dont have much time to work on it.
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Old 09-18-2009, 11:49 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoomin View Post
The map signal is referenced from the manifold, how is an intercooler pipe going to affect it? Most of us built our cars, you bought yours as it sits, who do you think is right?
1. You're right, I looked at my car, map is referenced off the i.m. No changes to plumbing before the i.m. would change map ref.

2. I wasn't doubting you, you offered proof, I accepted.

3. I did buy my car with turbo.

4. I didn't really buy it as it sits, I made some changes/optimizations to suit me.

You really get zero style points for busting my ***** for something I already readily admitted, ie that I bought my car already built. Better luck next time. Otherwise, I think my points were pretty valid, especially regarding WBO2, getting help from a knowledgeable dyno operator, and using search function.
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Old 09-18-2009, 12:01 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pasha View Post
only had a bout an hour and a half to work on it yesterday.. fixed some body stuff, pulled off the IC and some IC piping. got the piping resprayed . any idea how hot the IC piping gets?

today the plan is to do a little more body work, reconnect the piping, put some fresh 93 in and try to start it up. if its still acting up, ill pull the plugs and see whats going on there..

unfortunately i dont have much time to work on it.
The hotside gets pretty hot. The cold side stays cold.
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Old 09-18-2009, 12:44 PM   #54
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i was looking for numbers, but thats fine.. the stuff i sprayed the IC pipes with is up to 200 degrees.. should be good enough.

now i have been researching some spark plugs.. what to get and such.
so far i see we want to use.
NGK ZFR7F-11 or BKR6E .. one is extended something or other.. is there really a difference?
it seems to have the gap between 30 to 35. i found some bad plugs in the trunk with .044 marked on the box.. thats a bit odd.
do we want a smaller gap for more boost or bigger... this i got a bit confused about..
ref page: Turbo Spark Plug Gap?? - MX-5 Miata Forum

thanks.
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Old 09-18-2009, 01:22 PM   #55
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the BKR6E gapped to 30 did the trick for me. lots of other people too
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Old 09-18-2009, 01:25 PM   #56
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First step is to find out why it's running rough at idle.

If the car's rough at idle, it's probably not a plug gap problem. I'd clean the plugs. Always clean the plugs, you can spend days chasing running and starting problems from dirty plugs and it's easy to do. Correct gap for that car is 0.28-0.30". Yes, there is a difference between an extended plug and a normal one, go for the extended.

Has the car been sitting for a while? If so, you may need to get the injectors cleaned. I'm not sure if the gas has changed or if the cars are just more likely to sit for a long time now, but a year's disuse can easily clog them up. Of course, your fuel gets stale as well.

Check the A/F ratio at idle through the Link keypad. This is a test, read the manual or call us That'll tell you if you need to do anything with fuel. One rule with buying a used turbo Miata is that you have to assume everything's screwed up. If it can be mis-programmed, it probably is. Go through the whole car and check it out.

The Link can log any wideband and use it for autotuning.
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Old 09-18-2009, 01:35 PM   #57
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thanks guys! i love useful responses... lol
i guess ill pull the plugs first and try to clean. then get a new set if thy look screwd up. if the guy had a gap of .044 on them, would that make it run rough at idle?

my guess is the car has been sitting for a couple month. is that enough time to clog injectors or make the fuel get stale?

Keith.. can you tell me how well the MAP sensor box is sealed from the elements? we had rain couple days ago and after the rain i get to the shop pop the hood and there was some water on the box... so i wipe it off and put a bag over it.. the battery is dead, so i doubt things shorted anyways.. thanks.
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Old 09-18-2009, 02:08 PM   #58
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Pasha, I run the Link and that box has been wet before without issue. As for the gas, might want to add some Techron injector cleaner to the gas tank to clean things up, I do this once a year to all of my vehicles. And call your local Checker or Pep Boys for the NGK's, Autozone doesn't have them. The V-Power plug is what a lot of us use with great results, and run $1.89-$2.49 each, you need 4 of them.
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Old 09-18-2009, 02:15 PM   #59
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good to hear.
as for the techron, does it matter how much gas is in the tank? i know many aditives say add 1 bottle per tank.
Advance auto is by the shop, so ill stop by and check there. and with telling me i need 4, your being really nice to the NOOB lol

thanks.
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Old 09-18-2009, 02:27 PM   #60
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The Techron comes in 2 sizes, up to 12 gallons and up to 20 gallons, the choice should be obvious. I can't recall if Advance carries NGK or not, I haven't lived near one for 3 years. As for being nice, I got enough sleep last night and have a fun evening planned with my lady.
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