General Miata Chat A place to talk about anything Miata

Head to Head: NB1 vs. NB2, giving the best head

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 08-09-2017, 09:01 AM
  #61  
Elite Member
iTrader: (11)
 
chicksdigmiatas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Texas, 'Murica
Posts: 2,497
Total Cats: 0
Default

Originally Posted by 18psi
That car gains TWO SECONDS in the quarter and a solid 5-8mph trap speed from bolt ons and ecu.

Tuning both my MSM's was like tuning a subaru: 50-70hp from bolt ons and tune. You don't usually see that in a............miata
They probably thought all the people on m.net that just want to add an exhaust and tune and tell everyone their car has excellent throttle response would appreciate this.
chicksdigmiatas is offline  
Old 08-09-2017, 11:04 AM
  #62  
VladiTuned
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 35,821
Total Cats: 3,481
Default

They can install the FM intake kit and enjoy big supra noises and powerband without ever breaking the speed limit
18psi is offline  
Old 08-10-2017, 11:35 AM
  #63  
Junior Member
 
Engi-ninja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Columbus, IN
Posts: 324
Total Cats: 37
Default

Originally Posted by chicksdigmiatas

I read somewhere, that there is less coreshift (terminology?)
Not sure if this is asking for an explanation of the terminology, or asking if RTC understands the terminology...either way, core shift refers to a phenomenon in the casting process where the core(s) (which define internal geometry of the casting, like flow passages) moves, or "shifts," relative to the cope and drag after they have been assembled and before the casting has been poured and solidified. This results in offset internal geometry relative to the outer geometry, which, in this case, means that cast passages that are supposed to line up will not line up as well. This is most prevalent in greensand casting because it's relatively soft and easily deformed. Other casting technologies involve a stronger binder that makes the cores and flask very rigid, and result in very repeatable and tight tolerance castings; however, it's a lot more expensive.

Anyway, better core design can result in less core shift and better finished castings.

"The more you know...."
Engi-ninja is offline  
Old 08-10-2017, 01:16 PM
  #64  
Elite Member
iTrader: (11)
 
chicksdigmiatas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Texas, 'Murica
Posts: 2,497
Total Cats: 0
Default

Originally Posted by Engi-ninja
Not sure if this is asking for an explanation of the terminology, or asking if RTC understands the terminology...either way, core shift refers to a phenomenon in the casting process where the core(s) (which define internal geometry of the casting, like flow passages) moves, or "shifts," relative to the cope and drag after they have been assembled and before the casting has been poured and solidified. This results in offset internal geometry relative to the outer geometry, which, in this case, means that cast passages that are supposed to line up will not line up as well. This is most prevalent in greensand casting because it's relatively soft and easily deformed. Other casting technologies involve a stronger binder that makes the cores and flask very rigid, and result in very repeatable and tight tolerance castings; however, it's a lot more expensive.

Anyway, better core design can result in less core shift and better finished castings.

"The more you know...."
So, yeah, that was what I meant. Guessed it right. It was meant in the way that (sp?) Is meant, as in did i get the term right.
chicksdigmiatas is offline  
Old 08-10-2017, 01:36 PM
  #65  
Junior Member
 
Engi-ninja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Columbus, IN
Posts: 324
Total Cats: 37
Default

Ok, so unnecessarily detailed explanation :-P Oh well, now all the people who've been losing sleep wondering what core shift was will finally get some good rest.

My work here is done.
Engi-ninja is offline  
Old 08-10-2017, 01:38 PM
  #66  
VladiTuned
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 35,821
Total Cats: 3,481
Default

I haven't slept for a month wondering about this.
18psi is offline  
Old 08-10-2017, 06:32 PM
  #67  
Boost Czar
iTrader: (62)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 79,490
Total Cats: 4,079
Default

Originally Posted by The Driver
I think you typed that backwards. MSM doesn't have VTCS.
sorry. youre wrong.
Braineack is offline  
Reply
Leave a poscat -1 Leave a negcat
Old 08-10-2017, 06:34 PM
  #68  
VladiTuned
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 35,821
Total Cats: 3,481
Default

don't be such a hater

tell him he's less right

no one is ever wrong anymore. that's just so crude and abrasive
18psi is offline  
Old 08-10-2017, 06:44 PM
  #69  
Elite Member
iTrader: (11)
 
chicksdigmiatas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Texas, 'Murica
Posts: 2,497
Total Cats: 0
Default

Originally Posted by 18psi
don't be such a hater

tell him he's less right

no one is ever wrong anymore. that's just so crude and abrasive
I know! Right vs wrong. Male vs female. We cant draw lines these days. Must make med school hell these days. At least RTC will now be an expert in miata head.
chicksdigmiatas is offline  
Old 08-10-2017, 07:51 PM
  #70  
Junior Member
 
The Driver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Lakewood (Green Mountain) CO.
Posts: 250
Total Cats: -63
Default

Originally Posted by Braineack
sorry. youre wrong.
And you are over 24 hours late to the party...
BTW, it's written as YOU ARE, or YOU'RE, I thought you'd might like to know...
Originally Posted by The Driver
Then the MSM would have the BP4W + VCTS head?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda_MX-5Mazdaspeed MX-5 (2004–2005)[[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mazda_MX-5&action=edit&section=11]edit]


"2005 Lava Orange Mazdaspeed Miata next to a 2004 Velocity Red Mazdaspeed MiataThe 2004 model year saw the introduction of the official turbocharged Mazdaspeed MX-5, Roadster Turbo in Japan. It featured an IHI RHF5 VJ35 turbocharger equipped variant of the BP-4W engine that produced 178 bhp (133 kW) at 6500 rpm with a front-mounted air-to-air intercooler"
Originally Posted by The Driver
So the MSM would benefit with a VICS intake swap. Good to know!
Originally Posted by concealer404
That is correct. It's also the only "BP4W" produced post-2001 when VTCS made it onto all 1.8 Miatas.

What it really is is an USDM NB1 motor with a JDM y0 cam, and an NB2 intake manifold.
The Driver is offline  
Old 08-10-2017, 07:56 PM
  #71  
VladiTuned
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 35,821
Total Cats: 3,481
Default

hes to late and your already passed it amirite
18psi is offline  
Old 08-10-2017, 07:59 PM
  #72  
Junior Member
 
The Driver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Lakewood (Green Mountain) CO.
Posts: 250
Total Cats: -63
Default

Originally Posted by 18psi
hes to late and your already passed it amirite
#somethinglikethat...
The Driver is offline  
Old 08-10-2017, 07:59 PM
  #73  
Former Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 15,442
Total Cats: 2,099
Default

It's on Wikipedia, it must be right

(the most accurate way to describe an MSM engine is as "a VVT engine with oil/coolant block ports, less compression, no VVT, and a BP5A cam")
Savington is offline  
Old 08-10-2017, 08:44 PM
  #74  
Junior Member
 
The Driver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Lakewood (Green Mountain) CO.
Posts: 250
Total Cats: -63
Default

Originally Posted by Savington
It's on Wikipedia, it must be right

(the most accurate way to describe an MSM engine is as "a VVT engine with oil/coolant block ports, less compression, no VVT, and a BP5A cam")
Ah, so my previous research was not of your liking. How about this, Keith Tanner. Would that be better?

"The basic engine is essentially a 1999-00 one. Same head, slightly different cams, the oil pan and intake manifold from a 2001-05. It has oil drain and feed fittings and a tweak to the water pump inlet shape to clear the compressor inlet"

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/fo...ta/6658/page1/

BTW, happy as a clam with the MS3 y'all sold me. That thing is sweet as peaches!
The Driver is offline  
Old 08-10-2017, 08:54 PM
  #75  
Boost Czar
iTrader: (62)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 79,490
Total Cats: 4,079
Default

Originally Posted by The Driver
And you are over 24 hours late to the party...
BTW, it's written as YOU ARE, or YOU'RE, I thought you'd might like to know...
Should give you the lesson on how to use ellipses now?
Braineack is offline  
Old 08-10-2017, 09:23 PM
  #76  
Elite Member
iTrader: (11)
 
chicksdigmiatas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Texas, 'Murica
Posts: 2,497
Total Cats: 0
Default

Originally Posted by Braineack
Should give you the lesson on how to use ellipses now?
chicksdigmiatas is offline  
Old 08-10-2017, 09:27 PM
  #77  
Elite Member
iTrader: (11)
 
chicksdigmiatas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Texas, 'Murica
Posts: 2,497
Total Cats: 0
Default

Originally Posted by Braineack
Should give you the lesson on how to use ellipses now?
chicksdigmiatas is offline  
Old 08-10-2017, 09:28 PM
  #78  
Former Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 15,442
Total Cats: 2,099
Default

Originally Posted by The Driver
Ah, so my previous research was not of your liking. How about this, Keith Tanner. Would that be better?

"The basic engine is essentially a 1999-00 one. Same head, slightly different cams, the oil pan and intake manifold from a 2001-05. It has oil drain and feed fittings and a tweak to the water pump inlet shape to clear the compressor inlet"
Fine, but if you want to be insufferably pedantic, the MSM head is not "the same". It shares its coolant port passages with the BP6D head, not the BP4W. As such, it's the only BP4W-variant head that can safely be used with the 01+ style head gasket.
Savington is offline  
Old 08-10-2017, 09:44 PM
  #79  
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
ridethecliche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: New Fucking Jersey
Posts: 3,890
Total Cats: 143
Default

Originally Posted by chicksdigmiatas
Does doing a rectal exam count as getting paid for touching your junk?
ridethecliche is offline  
Old 08-10-2017, 09:50 PM
  #80  
Junior Member
 
Engi-ninja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Columbus, IN
Posts: 324
Total Cats: 37
Default

Originally Posted by Savington
Fine, but if you want to be insufferably pedantic
This excellent use of the English language has brought much joy to my evening.
Engi-ninja is offline  


Quick Reply: Head to Head: NB1 vs. NB2, giving the best head



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:07 AM.