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Old 03-17-2014, 11:03 PM   #1
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Ebay Help me realize the idea of a ~$300 Mazdaspeed swap

Okay, to make this brief: I bought a MSM engine with the turbo, intake and fuel rail for $300. It supposedly runs, and I believe it, because it's spotless under the valve cover. I have high aspirations of swapping it into my 1997, and I've searched and searched until my eyes glazed over at 4 in the morning, as well as networked with a few guys from my local club. Here is what I've found out:

I will need a MS3.

I will need an ebay intake and intercooler setup, of which variety I will figure out later.

I will need to swap over both the Cam and Crank angle sensors.

I will need to pull the head and inspect the ring clearance and condition of the cylinder walls, as well as clean out anything that may have fallen in during its time on the floor at a shop.

My stock clutch will not handle the higher output of the motor, so it and the flywheel will be replaced with a 949 Sport clutch and my Exedy 12lb flywheel.

I will need to figure out my exhaust setup.

And, finally, I should search more.

With that said, is this the best route I can go if I want to make 190-200WHP? I've thought about parting out the engine on eBay and putting that into a much more powerful build, but that would be putting money into an already tired 1.8 with 150k on the clock. I'm also sick to death of HLA clatter, and I don't want to mess around with drilling return lines or anything like that. I'm mechanically skilled, but I don't have the space or tools as of right now to go full DIY with this project, so any suggestions to weld or grind or fab anything up are kind of moot.

To sum it up, I wanna go fast-ish on a shoestring budget.

What say ye, o people of MT? Any pointers, criticisms, and ideas are welcome.
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Old 03-17-2014, 11:23 PM   #2
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Why not just slap it in unopened?

Run the turbo to 0.8 bar and it should be ultra reliable and make around your power goals with a decent timing map.

You can put the CAS in the back of the head but you're better off wiring up the NB sensors in my opinion.

Cheers
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Old 03-17-2014, 11:25 PM   #3
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Also if it still has the MSM clutch on the back, see how much meat is on it and maybe run with that?
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Old 03-17-2014, 11:39 PM   #4
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Welcome to the forum! You have started off on the right foot. Posted in the meet and greet section with good pictures, second post asking for direction but understanding there's much reading in your future.

More experienced people will chime in I'm sure but from what I've seen the mazdaspeed motors are the same as anything else besides obviously a 01-05 head, places for oil lines and a cool valve cover. (I'm sorry I don't have any info on msm injector sizes) Now that being said $300 for a low mileage super clean engine and turbo (we'll get to that) is a steal and you came out ahead already, the fact that its mazdaspeed is just a bonus. You mentioned parting out the motor on ebay. What I would suggest if your willing to put some time in would be selling the motor as a mazdaspeed, as some people don't understand they are the same and will pay a premium for the name. then take the money from that and build your motor.

The same goes for the turbo. I'm not sure exactly on the numbers, but if it is able to do 190-200 thats probably the upper limit of it and there are plenty of other better turbo options out there you could buy for the same price or less than what a "mazdaspeed" turbo would go for to someone looking to replace their blown oem one.

You would be just fine swapping that into your car, using that turbo with a decent manifold/exhuast setup and other supporting mods but for the money you could make off selling your msm setup you got a steal on you could build a much stronger setup.

For the other things you mentioned, if you do decide to run that motor, I'd suggest just swapping in the motor hooking it up and running a compression test. I'm sure its just fine unless there's a reason you don't think its good?

MS3 is great, lots of people run ebay intercooler/piping/intake (myself included) and there are plenty of threads on swapping different year motors around.

One more thing, drilling the oil pan is really easy and if you pay attention to where you are drilling (there's lots of pictures/advice on the exact location) its way easier than pulling a motor or doing a clutch. I wouldn't let that sway your decision.

I did a full diy turbo build and the only thing I fabbed was a wastegate bracket, a windshield wiper fluid bottle (I wanted to use a nos energy drink bottle) and mounting my intercooler/piping. All of which I did with ace hardware metal pieces and a $30 walmart grinder.

Again welcome and good luck! Clean car btw.
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Old 03-17-2014, 11:44 PM   #5
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Based on your budget I think you're on the right track. If you've already got the engine and turbo and everything for that kind of money, I'd say drop it in and use it. In order to get a comparable setup going you're going to be WAY more money than that into it.

Drop it in and use it.
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Old 03-18-2014, 02:49 PM   #6
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I am working on a MSM turbo install on my 91 with a 96 1.8 in it. I would say you just need to take what you have, maybe do a compression test on it and swap it in. 200whp is easily attainable with MS3 and descent exhaust. Might want to check the limit of MSM injectors. I'm runing RX7 460cc for now. There are better turbos out there, but for that price you have nothing to loose and it will be an easy upgrade to get a better turbo later.

Biggest issue I have had is clearing the NA Ac compressor. If you have a NB you should be OK. I just ended up making a custom water pump inlet pipe that worked around the issues.

I wish I already had the MSM block with factory oil feed and drain. That should make the complete engine install much easier to do. You should be able to use the MSM sensors and get it working with ms3.

What year is your car?
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Old 03-19-2014, 03:39 PM   #7
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Quote:
Why not just slap it in unopened?
Quote:
For the other things you mentioned, if you do decide to run that motor, I'd suggest just swapping in the motor hooking it up and running a compression test. I'm sure its just fine unless there's a reason you don't think its good?
I want to at least pull the head. The engine has been sitting for a while with no plugs or oil cap on, and I don't want mouse poop or metal shavings in my combustion chamber. It will also give me the option to check the condition of the rings and walls. Additionally, I don't know how to do a compression check without a starter attached. I know it's possible to do a really janky test by turning it with a ratchet, but there are all sorts of variables that could affect the outcome.

The biggest issue I have right now is getting the thing off the floor and onto a stand, which involves a crane, some bolts, and a stand, of which I have none. I'll do a HF run soon, but I'll be out of town for the next week.

Relte: My car is a 1997, but I've taken out the power steering, and there never was air conditioning, so, bullet dodged?

My thinking is: Get it on a stand, take a peek and clean it out, then fire the money cannon and get all the parts required.
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Old 03-19-2014, 04:40 PM   #8
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My thinking is: Get it on a stand, take a peek and clean it out, then fire the money cannon and get all the parts required.
Before you make that HF run, go to one of the local book stores that sell Import Tuner or Super Street or any of those import magazines. In them you will find a full page HF add with coupons, one of those coupons should be a 1 ton engine hoist for $99. It will also most likely have a 20% off a single items coupon in it. Use that coupon either on the engine level or engine stand.

I think getting the motor up on a stand and apart is a good first step. While you have it apart make sure you do the water pump and timing belt.
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Old 03-19-2014, 05:02 PM   #9
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Just got my MSM setup physically swapped into my 90.

Working on the fine details at this point, doing a lot of lurking and reading. Waiting for my Rev MS2.

You got your setup cheap!
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Old 03-19-2014, 06:14 PM   #10
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Before you make that HF run, go to one of the local book stores that sell Import Tuner or Super Street or any of those import magazines. In them you will find a full page HF add with coupons, one of those coupons should be a 1 ton engine hoist for $99. It will also most likely have a 20% off a single items coupon in it. Use that coupon either on the engine level or engine stand.

I think getting the motor up on a stand and apart is a good first step. While you have it apart make sure you do the water pump and timing belt.
But you can get a better hoist from pepboyz for $89...
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Old 03-19-2014, 06:30 PM   #11
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But you can get a better hoist from pepboyz for $89...
Never seen them that cheap there. link to it?
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Old 03-19-2014, 06:54 PM   #12
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Never seen them that cheap there. link to it?
No link. It might not be that cheap any more I just remember, it was $10 less than the harbor freight one. Maybe I didnt have the $99 coupon. Oh wait, no I didnt want the shitty one ton hoist, I have the 2 ton pepboys one. Carry on.
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Old 03-21-2014, 03:57 PM   #13
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The 1 ton HF hoist has just too short a reach for a Miata. Get the 2 ton at least.
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Old 03-21-2014, 05:24 PM   #14
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The 1 ton HF hoist has just too short a reach for a Miata. Get the 2 ton at least.
Since when? I have done done over a dozen engine swaps with one. I admit a 2 ton would make the job easier, but if he is on a budget it is not worth the $70 price difference or so to get it.
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Old 03-21-2014, 05:27 PM   #15
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Since when? I have done done over a dozen engine swaps with one. I admit a 2 ton would make the job easier, but if he is on a budget it is not worth the $70 price difference or so to get it.
Do you take the bumper off? The 2ton is the perfect length. The 1.5 ton will work on an NA, but you have to pull the bumper cover on the NB. I dont see how the 1 ton works without pulling the bumper cover.
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Old 03-21-2014, 05:38 PM   #16
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You MUST pull the front bumper cover off to use the 1-ton, and even then it just barely reaches what you need. I had to use a load leveler and extra lengths of chain with the 1-ton to make it reach easily.
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Old 03-21-2014, 05:39 PM   #17
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Do you take the bumper off? The 2ton is the perfect length. The 1.5 ton will work on an NA, but you have to pull the bumper cover on the NB. I dont see how the 1 ton works without pulling the bumper cover.
Bumper off is easier. The majority of the times I have done it though is with bumper on. I don't ever remember having a problem getting the engine in or out. I put the arm out as far as it can go, put my chains on and the level and go. I have done both NA's and NB's with no noticeable difference in effort. When I swap motors again in a few months I will take a picture of it if I remember.
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Old 03-23-2014, 05:16 PM   #18
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Without the bumper cover it will work, but otherwise the boom is too short to set the engine in place. Last one I did in my 91 I had to squish the bumper cover pretty good to reach with the load leveler. I was planning on getting the car painted shortly thereafter so a few scratches didn't bother me. That is with the chain coming out of the square tube for a little extra reach over the standard mounting of the chain. I have been debating on drilling another hole to extend the boom another 2" which would be perfect. The Miata engine and tranny should be light enough to be OK on the slightly longer boom.

I did a engine swap on a 90 years ago with a proper 2 ton and had no issues. That included me doing the entire job on my own on a dirt barn floor.
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Old 03-26-2014, 02:45 PM   #19
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Sorry about the delay in my response, I've been out of state for the past week, so things have been hectic.

Thanks for the input on the cherrypicker - I don't think I'll have to worry about the specifics for getting the engine dropped in for a while until I figure out if the damn thing runs for sure. I'll get the 2 ton, or try to find one close by on craigslist for sale. I'll be sure to get the right sized bolts to hold the engine to the stand, but I do have one question: Can I bolt the engine to the stand and still retain the ability to remove the oil pan?
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Old 03-27-2014, 10:43 AM   #20
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Yes. just use the upper 4 bellhousing bolt holes that are part of the block and not the oil pan.
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