I know everyone is tired of my indecisiveness...but FM or BEGi?
 

The FM "no electronics kit" is $2800, the bell kit is $1000 more. Is the coolant re-route (which may not even be a true re-route), distribution block, air scooper, and different dp design worth the extra $1000?

This money is starting to burn a hole in my checking account.

id probally go with the fm kit. its a 1000$ cheaper,why not.

i dont like those air scoopers.and you can probally make a coolant reroute foe $100.
i dont know what a distibution block is ,sorry on that one.

I'm only considering build quality. I don't want to deal with welds cracking and shit like that. If I went with FM, I can get exhaust and a clutch for the difference.

I've also thought about not buying an intercooler from either one, and getting a track dog racing IC, since Gary is my sister's neighbor, and I may be able to get a better price than the advertised one.

Man i love the TD IC setups and if you've got the bank and hook up to get one I say go FM or BEGI and do that. You can make your own scooper and do your own reroute later on.

Go with the BEGi kit.

Your getting a better downpipe,manifold,oil & water lines.

Just a overall better engineered kit than the FM kit.

Are there reliability problems with the FM stuff? I'm going conservative on the tune, so I'm not worried about losing 5hp from the divorced dp...though it is sexy.

Have no idea.

It's too early for any problems to come up yet.

However if any problems do/did arise,I'm sure the FM nutswingers that purchased the "new" FM kit would not report it publically for all to see.

Another reason I don't want the FM shit...and why do they have to put their name on everything?

Advertisement,plain & simple.

If you don't want the FM kit,just go with the BEGi kit.

You do have a choice.

Why not buy a turbo, manifold, and downpipe of your choice from Begi. Then run an ebay intercooler n piping? You have megasquirt running right?

I haven't even purchased it yet. I want to mechanically bolt and go, I don't want to get stuck welding and shit, because it won't be pretty or reliable.

a $1000 difference though.

if it was me doing it again, id do what akaryrye said. except find a good deal on a 2560 somewhere.

Yes I know,but remember your getting a better designed and proven reliable kit.

Not to mention the coolant re-route and the water by-pass and all the other extra things that the FM kit does not have.

has anyone actually confirmed the re-route is a true re-route? It looks to me like water still comes "out" the front of the head.

^ Not sure,Stephanie might want to answer this one.

I will be getting the BEGi re-route soon( just need more money).

where do the water lines come from, that feed the turbo? How does everyone tap into them?

I've emailed begi twice on the coolant re-route, and they don't answer. The more I think about it...diy might be better in the long run, but will take forever.

But it also comes with more stuff: coolant bypass & reroute, air scooper, radiator cowl plate, etc. If you remove the cost of the added parts and compare just the hard parts, the BEGi kit is close to FM's in price. IMO the idea of going with BEGi's core components and TD's FMIC is very appealing.

Plus, you'll actually get your BEGi stuff. :gay:

BEGI, but you can also delete things

I could buy the bell manifold, dp, re-reoute (if its really what they claim it is), buy a t28 for $500, and run the TDR FMIC, $100 for water and oil lines, $50 for a bov, and I have $2700 in turbo system. Maybe less if I can get a deal on the intercooler.

all I know is that my tax return was $663, which buys me a pre-built ms, and wideband.

So what is the difference between the FM2 and BEGi systems?
Ours has a coolant re-route, FM does not. The race reroute from the back of the head will be available at a later date.
BEGi has stainless braided lines only, FM does not.
BEGi has the separated gases d/p for over 20", FM does not.
BEGi has a Cool Air Box, Radiator Cover (1.6 & 1.8) and Air Scooper, FM does not.
BEGi has a Water By-pass, FM does not.
BEGi's parts are made in the USA, Some of FM's are not.
BEGi's has a 14% better flowing Intercooler than FM's. Made specifically for the Miata.
BEGi has a power steering cooler, FM does not.
BEGi has the distribution bracket, FM does not.
BEGi has a compressor inlet tube heat shield, , FM does not.
BEGi has a better flowing manifold.
BEGi has a 20 day delivery guarantee, FM does not. (see website for details)
FM has a standalone ECU, BEGi does not.
FM Uses the GFB valve. BEGi does not. We have the "Fat Man". :)

If you compared components it is easy to see where our price is cheater than theirs. Items can be deleted or added as needed. And all systems (except SZ) are designs for bolt up upgrades. We have very few parts that are interchangeable between model year cars. That way, all parts are specific for that car. One of our employees is getting ready to mega squirt his BEGi turbo for grins. We'll let you know what happens.
Stephanie
p.s. sorry i am slow on e-mail. bronchitis was kicking my butt for awhile.

Stephanie what is the "Fat Man"?

FM reply to your e-mails.
BEGi does NOT.


:td:

when will the "race re-route" be available, and can i still use the heater with it?

http://i17.tinypic.com/4i2srae.gif
What will all this go to? lol

Have you personally experienced BEGi not responding to your emails that you sent them?

Got my system from BEGI. Steph and Mary have answered every E-Mail and add Corky to the phone calls. I have always gotten answers to my questions and talked to Corky four times yesterday during the install. They have all been very helpful. :bigtu:

When I was on the fence as to the system I wanted Corky got on the phone and walked me thru a decision making session. He asked what I wanted and basically put together a system just for me.:) The components are all top notch. The parts bags contain just what is neede for each part of the install. Great instructions with good pics to help in the layout.

I can't wait to get it finished next week.

I would do it again in a heart beat.

Ours has a coolant re-route, FM does not. The race reroute from the back of the head will be available at a later date.
the good one youll have to wait for.:td:

BEGi has stainless braided lines only, FM does not.
only need braided feed,which fm has.

BEGi has the separated gases d/p for over 20", FM does not.definately a sweet peice.:bowdown:

BEGi has a Cool Air Box, Radiator Cover (1.6 & 1.8) and Air Scooper, FM does not.
what only use the radiator cover,which can be made cheap.

BEGi has a Water By-pass, FM does not.cool feature:)

BEGi's parts are made in the USA, Some of FM's are not.
i honestly dont give a shit where its made,aslong as its quality.

BEGi's has a 14% better flowing Intercooler than FM's. Made specifically for the Miata.thats always good:)

BEGi has a power steering cooler, FM does not.i have no ps so woulnt to me any good.:ugh2:

BEGi has the distribution bracket, FM does not.:confused:

BEGi has a compressor inlet tube heat shield, , FM does not.:confused:

BEGi has a better flowing manifold. how much better.i thought they where very similar:confused: or the same.

BEGi has a 20 day delivery guarantee, FM does not. (see website for details)
that would suck waiting months for boost.

FM has a standalone ECU, BEGi does not. youre going megasquirt

FM Uses the GFB valve. BEGi does not. We have the "Fat Man". i dont ike eithor.:td:

wow, look i was absolutely no use too you .
match up the kits part 2 part, and get the cheaper one,unless its very close in price,then get the better one.
at that point id probally get the begi 1 because the downpipe is sex.

Get the BEGI. You will be happier with a BEGI.

fuck whAT ever i just said.
get the begi with this manfiold.:bigtu: :eek: :bigtu:


ok the pics arent working.ill link it.

also there cast ezternal set -ups are sweet.:bigtu:

I would go with the BEGI simply because of the pretty Stage 4 and 5 pictures they have. Actually the stage 4 picture of everything is my computers background right now. Also with begi you will get your kit soon. There is still no eta on the FM kit.

At 2560 boost levels I bet it doesn't make a bit of difference.

Frank

If you bought the manifold...downpipe...etc you couldn't have to weld anything? they bolt right up to the engine...and bolt to exhaust...

But for the money, I don't know enough about either way to make a statement

BEGi has kits shipping

FM does not


I have been saving for a few years for a FM II but when it was time to order FM does not even have an ETA on the 1.6 kit. Bell has them on the shelf.

hustler i didnt need to weld a damn thing on mine. Begi parts will do just fine for you. So just pony up the cash to Corcky like a good boy and take your FI miata. Any more stalling and we will start to tell you to buy a kit from Gary at TDR since he is such a buddy to you and your sis. :p

I find it interesting that you agonize over the hard parts (FM or BEGI?) but made the decision to go to a MegaSquirt very quickly.

I don't think any will argue that both BEGI and FM make quality bits. Both will probably be with in a couple dozen HP of each other and pretty darn reliable. You really couldn't go wrong with either one.

This can't be said for the MegaSquirt. I was all set to buy a MS, but then I started really following the threads. I saw a lot of posts that read "It's great but ...." If you are willing to deal with the "buts" I'm sure the MS is going to kick ass.

If you think the hard part is going to be installing the kit you are on crack. The tough part is going to be tuning it. Again this seems to be one downside to the MS, not a lot of MIATA experience with it. If you want to be on the bleeding edge, it would be an excellent choice.

If I were you ... I'd buy the cheapest of the two (BEGI or FM) and spend the money on a proven ECU that has most of the bugs worked out and a lot of tuning experience behind it. I'd leave the MS for people that are into that sort of thing. I wouldn't want to plug my ECU in and find that my car won't start, then asking the question ... is it a bad solder joint? fuel/timing map? wiring?

I really think you are focusing your attention on the wrong parts of the car. As good as the manifold/downpipe/turbo/feed lines/etc are the car isn't going to be fun to drive with out good tuning.

I just bought a BEGi Stage 1 kit a while back. Its a nice kit with some nice quality components. The workmanship on the parts is top notch.

However, the instructions are a bit confusing at times. I actually use the FM turbo kit instructions in conjunction with the BEGi ones during my install. Also, depending on what kit you get, a lot of the items in the instructions may not actually apply to you, or, even worse, you get parts that aren't even documented in the instructions. Most of these things aren't hard to figure out after some thought, but, if you are a first timer like myself, clear accurate instructions would be invaluable.

Luckily Stephanie and Corky have been quite helpful in answering most of my questions, though I have had a couple emails unanswered which is kind of disappointing...

I read somewhere that Bell was having so e-mail problems.

I'm buying the DIY autotune prebuilt MS piece. I can handle tuning the car, but can't handle the kinda bullshit like parts not fitting and having to weld everything back up.

MS will be easier than dealing with 3 separate ecm's (stock, spark time, fuel), dramatically cheaper, and its on par with the same labor involved with running Haltech or TEC.

I am glad you got atleast one thing figured out Hopefully MS will catch on even more. All you MS haters need to consider that this teething process is the same as any other ecu even link except the fact that all our problems are laid out for public aproval vs, FM/Begi etc who do there test pilot programs behind closed doors, not that there is anything wrong with that. It is just i am tired of people trying to slam MS quality yeah it is DIY but it has worked for alot of people and seems to be very versatile as more people do it, the product willmature and it will become every bit as user freindly as the Link, etc. Just give it time. For me price was a major issue once the initial tune is set it is only a matter of tweaking before it is right that is part of the fun of a turbo miata.

Price is a major issue. I put the Haltech e6f in my vw a few years ago...it was such a nightmare. I still have a ton to learn about MS though.

Re-read my post before you call me a hater.

My decision to go with a link over the MS was a well thought out one. I couldn't risk not being able to drive my car for a significant amount of time, given I only get to drive it about 6 months of the year. The MS is probably quite capable, but I hate to deal with not knowing if the problem is hardware, software or wiring related ... and be on my own doing it. As much as there is a community surrounding the MS, that isn't the same as having a long standing vendor stand behind a product.

The MS is NOT for the faint at heart. From reading Hustler's posts he didn't seem like someone who had time to fuck around with getting a DIY ECU to work. Maybe I'm wrong.


People need to learn not to get emotionally attached to the hardware they are sticking in their cars.

If I could find a used "link" for a 91 car for a decen't price, I'd buy it up in a hearbeat.

I was suggesting you get a plug and play ECU. Link, Hyrda, AEM. More money but you should be up and running significantly faster than with the MS. After going the piggy back route, I wouldn't suggest it. Like you said, to many variables. Are you planing to run the MS stand alone?

I'd rather put up with having a DP re-welded than not having a running car due to a problem with the tuning of my ECU. I'm not saying that the MS will be a nightmare, but it has way more potential to being a nightmare than other options.

But then again we are talking BEGI and FM, I doubt you'll have any trouble with their kits fitting properly.

I wish you luck.

So is it primarily a cost thing?

Me personally I'd rather go cheaper on the hard parts and spend the money/time on a good known ECU. Something like the MS will cost you less money but more time, a hyrda or link will cost you more money but less time. At least that's my take on it.

What do you have more of? Money or time? I've got a 2.5 year old boy, so I've got more money than time :)

Considering that MS with a wideband is only $780, and link is $1700, I don't have that much cash to blow out my ass. I'm home about one week every 60 days, I don't have much time either.

I'm getting frustrated again. I didn't want to spend more than $5k on all this shit, including clutch at exhuast.

Hustler, if you're not daily driving your miata, you could call FM and see what they'll sell the Link I returned to them for. It worked fine, except that it wouldn't recognize o2 sensor feedback.

Also, you'd use the P-Link anyway and could remove the link keypad and save $250.

wtf is p-link?

I don't have a palm, just a notebook.

yeah, you get one off of ebay for $20. Then you can leave the palm in the car all the time, and not have to worry about your notebook.

The palm will datalog full time, or can be set to automatically start under certain conditions.

oh, sick. I might end up doing that instead. Does link make any more power on a naturally aspirated engine? I'm going to probably end up running the 1.8 NA for a while, before the forced induction comes.

If you have a $5K budget then you'll just have to figure out where to spend the money.

If I were in your shoes, I'd drop the idea of a 1.8 swap. Sell the motor and buy your ECU of choice. Get it sorted out and wait for a good used deal to come up.

Trying to do what you want with constraints you have on time I don't think is going to happen for $5K. Either you have to put more money in, or scale back on what is possible.

All turbo customers will be offered the upgrade at a reduced price.

I will have to disagree. The water lines need to be braided line also. I have had dozens of people tell me they replaced their FM2 rubber lines within 2 years. The oil drain line may be overkill, but it is a durability issue.

True, but ours is pretty cheap too. $30.00 It is only used with the Air scooper to make air flow thru the radiator.

True. However, waiting on international shipments is a pain. Some of our items come out of Australia and shipping delays (not to mention communication delays) can make life interesting

If it is not needed, it gets deleted and the price reduced.

Makes getting oil sources from two different places a little simpler.

It sits between the exhaust manifold and compressor inlet tube. It helps keep the tube cool from exhaust heat.

Look closely. Their manifold has more bends and sharper angles. Ours has the direct pulse feature. Flow from Exhaust ports 1 & 4 will not hit each other and cause friction. Flow from port 2 & 3 goes straight into the manifold.

The Fat man is new and not released yet. We are still testing it on my car. Hopefully soon.

I am soooo sorry I have been slower to answer e-mails lately. Three weeks ago I got knocked out with severe bronchitis and the flu. I am still getting over the bronchitis and struggling to keep up. I have all messages and will reply as soon as possible. If a more immediate response is needed, please call. I do appreciate ya'lls patience with me.
Stephanie

I have a swap car, so if I dumped it off, then I'm stuck with a motor at 150k, open rear end, and little brakes.

I'm probably too stressed to be thinking about this garbage anyway.