I know everyone is tired of my indecisiveness...but FM or BEGi? - Page 3 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 03-19-2007, 03:39 PM   #41
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I find it interesting that you agonize over the hard parts (FM or BEGI?) but made the decision to go to a MegaSquirt very quickly.

I don't think any will argue that both BEGI and FM make quality bits. Both will probably be with in a couple dozen HP of each other and pretty darn reliable. You really couldn't go wrong with either one.

This can't be said for the MegaSquirt. I was all set to buy a MS, but then I started really following the threads. I saw a lot of posts that read "It's great but ...." If you are willing to deal with the "buts" I'm sure the MS is going to kick ***.

If you think the hard part is going to be installing the kit you are on crack. The tough part is going to be tuning it. Again this seems to be one downside to the MS, not a lot of MIATA experience with it. If you want to be on the bleeding edge, it would be an excellent choice.

If I were you ... I'd buy the cheapest of the two (BEGI or FM) and spend the money on a proven ECU that has most of the bugs worked out and a lot of tuning experience behind it. I'd leave the MS for people that are into that sort of thing. I wouldn't want to plug my ECU in and find that my car won't start, then asking the question ... is it a bad solder joint? fuel/timing map? wiring?

I really think you are focusing your attention on the wrong parts of the car. As good as the manifold/downpipe/turbo/feed lines/etc are the car isn't going to be fun to drive with out good tuning.
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Old 03-19-2007, 03:55 PM   #42
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I just bought a BEGi Stage 1 kit a while back. Its a nice kit with some nice quality components. The workmanship on the parts is top notch.

However, the instructions are a bit confusing at times. I actually use the FM turbo kit instructions in conjunction with the BEGi ones during my install. Also, depending on what kit you get, a lot of the items in the instructions may not actually apply to you, or, even worse, you get parts that aren't even documented in the instructions. Most of these things aren't hard to figure out after some thought, but, if you are a first timer like myself, clear accurate instructions would be invaluable.

Luckily Stephanie and Corky have been quite helpful in answering most of my questions, though I have had a couple emails unanswered which is kind of disappointing...
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Old 03-19-2007, 04:10 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by miatanewb View Post

Luckily Stephanie and Corky have been quite helpful in answering most of my questions, though I have had a couple emails unanswered which is kind of disappointing...

I read somewhere that Bell was having so e-mail problems.
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Old 03-19-2007, 05:01 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by jayc72 View Post
I find it interesting that you agonize over the hard parts (FM or BEGI?) but made the decision to go to a MegaSquirt very quickly.

I don't think any will argue that both BEGI and FM make quality bits. Both will probably be with in a couple dozen HP of each other and pretty darn reliable. You really couldn't go wrong with either one.

This can't be said for the MegaSquirt. I was all set to buy a MS, but then I started really following the threads. I saw a lot of posts that read "It's great but ...." If you are willing to deal with the "buts" I'm sure the MS is going to kick ***.

If you think the hard part is going to be installing the kit you are on crack. The tough part is going to be tuning it. Again this seems to be one downside to the MS, not a lot of MIATA experience with it. If you want to be on the bleeding edge, it would be an excellent choice.

If I were you ... I'd buy the cheapest of the two (BEGI or FM) and spend the money on a proven ECU that has most of the bugs worked out and a lot of tuning experience behind it. I'd leave the MS for people that are into that sort of thing. I wouldn't want to plug my ECU in and find that my car won't start, then asking the question ... is it a bad solder joint? fuel/timing map? wiring?

I really think you are focusing your attention on the wrong parts of the car. As good as the manifold/downpipe/turbo/feed lines/etc are the car isn't going to be fun to drive with out good tuning.

I'm buying the DIY autotune prebuilt MS piece. I can handle tuning the car, but can't handle the kinda bullshit like parts not fitting and having to weld everything back up.

MS will be easier than dealing with 3 separate ecm's (stock, spark time, fuel), dramatically cheaper, and its on par with the same labor involved with running Haltech or TEC.
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Old 03-19-2007, 05:14 PM   #45
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I am glad you got atleast one thing figured out Hopefully MS will catch on even more. All you MS haters need to consider that this teething process is the same as any other ecu even link except the fact that all our problems are laid out for public aproval vs, FM/Begi etc who do there test pilot programs behind closed doors, not that there is anything wrong with that. It is just i am tired of people trying to slam MS quality yeah it is DIY but it has worked for alot of people and seems to be very versatile as more people do it, the product willmature and it will become every bit as user freindly as the Link, etc. Just give it time. For me price was a major issue once the initial tune is set it is only a matter of tweaking before it is right that is part of the fun of a turbo miata.
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Old 03-19-2007, 05:22 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by magnamx-5 View Post
I am glad you got atleast one thing figured out Hopefully MS will catch on even more. All you MS haters need to consider that this teething process is the same as any other ecu even link except the fact that all our problems are laid out for public aproval vs, FM/Begi etc who do there test pilot programs behind closed doors, not that there is anything wrong with that. It is just i am tired of people trying to slam MS quality yeah it is DIY but it has worked for alot of people and seems to be very versatile as more people do it, the product willmature and it will become every bit as user freindly as the Link, etc. Just give it time. For me price was a major issue once the initial tune is set it is only a matter of tweaking before it is right that is part of the fun of a turbo miata.

Price is a major issue. I put the Haltech e6f in my vw a few years ago...it was such a nightmare. I still have a ton to learn about MS though.
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Old 03-19-2007, 05:30 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by magnamx-5 View Post
I am glad you got atleast one thing figured out Hopefully MS will catch on even more. All you MS haters need to consider that this teething process is the same as any other ecu even link except the fact that all our problems are laid out for public aproval vs, FM/Begi etc who do there test pilot programs behind closed doors, not that there is anything wrong with that. It is just i am tired of people trying to slam MS quality yeah it is DIY but it has worked for alot of people and seems to be very versatile as more people do it, the product willmature and it will become every bit as user freindly as the Link, etc. Just give it time. For me price was a major issue once the initial tune is set it is only a matter of tweaking before it is right that is part of the fun of a turbo miata.
Re-read my post before you call me a hater.

My decision to go with a link over the MS was a well thought out one. I couldn't risk not being able to drive my car for a significant amount of time, given I only get to drive it about 6 months of the year. The MS is probably quite capable, but I hate to deal with not knowing if the problem is hardware, software or wiring related ... and be on my own doing it. As much as there is a community surrounding the MS, that isn't the same as having a long standing vendor stand behind a product.

The MS is NOT for the faint at heart. From reading Hustler's posts he didn't seem like someone who had time to **** around with getting a DIY ECU to work. Maybe I'm wrong.


People need to learn not to get emotionally attached to the hardware they are sticking in their cars.
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Old 03-19-2007, 05:33 PM   #48
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The MS is NOT for the faint at heart. From reading Hustler's posts he didn't seem like someone who had time to **** around with getting a DIY ECU to work. Maybe I'm wrong.
If I could find a used "link" for a 91 car for a decen't price, I'd buy it up in a hearbeat.
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Old 03-19-2007, 05:34 PM   #49
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I'm buying the DIY autotune prebuilt MS piece. I can handle tuning the car, but can't handle the kinda bullshit like parts not fitting and having to weld everything back up.

MS will be easier than dealing with 3 separate ecm's (stock, spark time, fuel), dramatically cheaper, and its on par with the same labor involved with running Haltech or TEC.
I was suggesting you get a plug and play ECU. Link, Hyrda, AEM. More money but you should be up and running significantly faster than with the MS. After going the piggy back route, I wouldn't suggest it. Like you said, to many variables. Are you planing to run the MS stand alone?

I'd rather put up with having a DP re-welded than not having a running car due to a problem with the tuning of my ECU. I'm not saying that the MS will be a nightmare, but it has way more potential to being a nightmare than other options.

But then again we are talking BEGI and FM, I doubt you'll have any trouble with their kits fitting properly.

I wish you luck.
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Old 03-19-2007, 05:37 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by hustler View Post
If I could find a used "link" for a 91 car for a decen't price, I'd buy it up in a hearbeat.
So is it primarily a cost thing?

Me personally I'd rather go cheaper on the hard parts and spend the money/time on a good known ECU. Something like the MS will cost you less money but more time, a hyrda or link will cost you more money but less time. At least that's my take on it.

What do you have more of? Money or time? I've got a 2.5 year old boy, so I've got more money than time
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Old 03-19-2007, 05:48 PM   #51
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So is it primarily a cost thing?

Me personally I'd rather go cheaper on the hard parts and spend the money/time on a good known ECU. Something like the MS will cost you less money but more time, a hyrda or link will cost you more money but less time. At least that's my take on it.

What do you have more of? Money or time? I've got a 2.5 year old boy, so I've got more money than time
Considering that MS with a wideband is only $780, and link is $1700, I don't have that much cash to blow out my ***. I'm home about one week every 60 days, I don't have much time either.

I'm getting frustrated again. I didn't want to spend more than $5k on all this ****, including clutch at exhuast.
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Old 03-19-2007, 05:53 PM   #52
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Hustler, if you're not daily driving your miata, you could call FM and see what they'll sell the Link I returned to them for. It worked fine, except that it wouldn't recognize o2 sensor feedback.

Also, you'd use the P-Link anyway and could remove the link keypad and save $250.
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Old 03-19-2007, 05:57 PM   #53
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wtf is p-link?
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Old 03-19-2007, 06:14 PM   #54
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wtf is p-link?
http://4rows.com/plinkhome.htm
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Old 03-19-2007, 06:16 PM   #55
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I don't have a palm, just a notebook.
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Old 03-19-2007, 06:18 PM   #56
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yeah, you get one off of ebay for $20. Then you can leave the palm in the car all the time, and not have to worry about your notebook.

The palm will datalog full time, or can be set to automatically start under certain conditions.
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Old 03-19-2007, 06:20 PM   #57
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yeah, you get one off of ebay for $20. Then you can leave the palm in the car all the time, and not have to worry about your notebook.

The palm will datalog full time, or can be set to automatically start under certain conditions.
oh, sick. I might end up doing that instead. Does link make any more power on a naturally aspirated engine? I'm going to probably end up running the 1.8 NA for a while, before the forced induction comes.
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Old 03-19-2007, 06:23 PM   #58
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I'm getting frustrated again. I didn't want to spend more than $5k on all this ****, including clutch at exhuast.
If you have a $5K budget then you'll just have to figure out where to spend the money.

If I were in your shoes, I'd drop the idea of a 1.8 swap. Sell the motor and buy your ECU of choice. Get it sorted out and wait for a good used deal to come up.

Trying to do what you want with constraints you have on time I don't think is going to happen for $5K. Either you have to put more money in, or scale back on what is possible.
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Old 03-19-2007, 06:24 PM   #59
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Ours has a coolant re-route, FM does not. The race reroute from the back of the head will be available at a later date.
the good one youll have to wait for.
All turbo customers will be offered the upgrade at a reduced price.

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BEGi has stainless braided lines only, FM does not.
only need braided feed,which fm has.
I will have to disagree. The water lines need to be braided line also. I have had dozens of people tell me they replaced their FM2 rubber lines within 2 years. The oil drain line may be overkill, but it is a durability issue.

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BEGi has a Cool Air Box, Radiator Cover (1.6 & 1.8) and Air Scooper, FM does not.
what only use the radiator cover,which can be made cheap.
True, but ours is pretty cheap too. $30.00 It is only used with the Air scooper to make air flow thru the radiator.

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BEGi's parts are made in the USA, Some of FM's are not.
i honestly dont give a **** where its made,aslong as its quality.
True. However, waiting on international shipments is a pain. Some of our items come out of Australia and shipping delays (not to mention communication delays) can make life interesting

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BEGi has a power steering cooler, FM does not.i have no ps so woulnt to me any good.
If it is not needed, it gets deleted and the price reduced.

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BEGi has the distribution bracket, FM does not.
Makes getting oil sources from two different places a little simpler.

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BEGi has a compressor inlet tube heat shield, , FM does not.
It sits between the exhaust manifold and compressor inlet tube. It helps keep the tube cool from exhaust heat.

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BEGi has a better flowing manifold. how much better.i thought they where very similar or the same.
Look closely. Their manifold has more bends and sharper angles. Ours has the direct pulse feature. Flow from Exhaust ports 1 & 4 will not hit each other and cause friction. Flow from port 2 & 3 goes straight into the manifold.

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FM Uses the GFB valve. BEGi does not. We have the "Fat Man". i dont ike eithor.
The Fat man is new and not released yet. We are still testing it on my car. Hopefully soon.

I am soooo sorry I have been slower to answer e-mails lately. Three weeks ago I got knocked out with severe bronchitis and the flu. I am still getting over the bronchitis and struggling to keep up. I have all messages and will reply as soon as possible. If a more immediate response is needed, please call. I do appreciate ya'lls patience with me.
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Old 03-19-2007, 06:31 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by jayc72 View Post
If you have a $5K budget then you'll just have to figure out where to spend the money.

If I were in your shoes, I'd drop the idea of a 1.8 swap. Sell the motor and buy your ECU of choice. Get it sorted out and wait for a good used deal to come up.
I have a swap car, so if I dumped it off, then I'm stuck with a motor at 150k, open rear end, and little brakes.

I'm probably too stressed to be thinking about this garbage anyway.
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