Originally Posted by nitrodann
(Post 710835)
Lol, this will never go anywhere really. I have cams portwork solid lifters etc etc etc but i still have stock Im if that answers your question.
Dann If you have all that, you will go faster if you developed the induction. My personal opinion. I never would have run what I do currently with a stock manny and throttle body. |
1 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by WonTon
(Post 710529)
If you have ITBs that are 40mm, thats 160mm feeding the engine divided by 4. so technically you have the ability to feed more air into the engine and with short straight runners you get that supply faster.
you meant this: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1302032302 |
individual throttle bodies plus a plenum > one throttle body in front of the plenum.
imagine having big ass ports at high rpm and teenie high velocity ports at low rpm? mmm sweeeeet. |
Lets see if I can redeem myself! If your cruising at 3500 RPM, Thats about 58 Rotations per second, and about 116 strokes per second right? 2 strokes per rotation right? (Im rounding my numbers)
If you ask me, saying that one stroke pulling air through a 60mm TB is wrong givin the amount of air that can be pulled in the engine in ONE second depending on RPMs. |
Your cute.
Dann |
Originally Posted by nitrodann
(Post 710927)
Your cute.
Dann |
Originally Posted by y8s
(Post 710907)
individual throttle bodies plus a plenum > one throttle body in front of the plenum.
imagine having big ass ports at high rpm and teenie high velocity ports at low rpm? mmm sweeeeet. What do Indy Car, Prostock, and Moto GP all have in common? They are all unlimmited naturally aspirated racers, and they all have one throttle body per cylinder. The only time I have seen a single throttle body in an unlimmited application, is turbo or supercharged drag cars. I think it is because the plenum has a pressure high enough to keep one runner from robbing another, and quick throttle response in not really important.......And I spend a lot of time at the drag strip.:giggle: |
How much time do you spend driving your car down the street? I want to know about the daily driven characteristics of a setup like this. I under stand WOT performance, but what about cruising?
|
I have found that cruising along on the street is great. I have had no drivability problems at all. When you crack the throttle it is way more responsive than stock. If you tune it correctly, you will be amazed at how hard it accelerates with part throttle. It make the experience quite nice.
It took a while to get rid of the dead spot when I floored it, but after fiddling with it, I got it to go away. |
Originally Posted by miata2fast
(Post 710943)
You bring up a very good point. The throttle body in front of the plenum is what will always cause a lower pressure inside a naturally aspirated intake tract than the air outside of the intake tract.
What do Indy Car, Prostock, and Moto GP all have in common? They are all unlimmited naturally aspirated racers, and they all have one throttle body per cylinder. The only time I have seen a single throttle body in an unlimmited application, is turbo or supercharged drag cars. I think it is because the plenum has a pressure high enough to keep one runner from robbing another, and quick throttle response in not really important.......And I spend a lot of time at the drag strip.:giggle: if you could wouldn't you? http://www.intrinsicperformance.com/...4mm-ITB-01.jpg |
y8s, whose manifold is that? more specifically, the plenum?
-Greer |
it's a k series setup from hayward.
for a couple grand, you could have one too. http://www.haywardperformance.com/intake_systems.php |
Not that much love, was hoping for a solid plenum supplier besides ross machine
-Greer |
Originally Posted by WonTon
(Post 710541)
Thats like saying they could have put a better intake on there or even a more free flowing exhaust. They cant cause they have to stick to certain standards. Im sure if they could have they would have slapped a begger displacement engine in there, but that would change the classing of the car. (Isnt there some kinda tax overseas based on your engine displacement?)
Originally Posted by VitaminD
(Post 710545)
why would you spend all the money to set up ITB's when you could have a cheap satisfying turbo?
Originally Posted by thirdgen
(Post 710671)
Thanks a lot for your information.
My real big question comes with tuning. How would I tune an ITB setup with my MS2 which uses a MAP sensor? I would imagine the vacuum signal must be really sucky. use a vacuum block to combine the 4 shitty signals into a somewhat useable single signal. |
Originally Posted by miata2fast
(Post 710837)
If you put a vacuum gauge on a plenum of a normally aspirated car at WOT, is it going to be higher than the ambient outside air?
[/quoteI think that it helps alleviate the symptom tremendously, but does it truely completely eliminate it? [/quote] Uh, yes. When the valve opens, you pull air from the plenum, which pulls from the throttle body (and now we're back to the 60mm vs. 40mm argument). The rest of the runners get the bouncing effect that Scooteroo was talking about. |
Originally Posted by WonTon
(Post 710923)
Lets see if I can redeem myself! If your cruising at 3500 RPM, Thats about 58 Rotations per second, and about 116 strokes per second right? 2 strokes per rotation right? (Im rounding my numbers)
If you ask me, saying that one stroke pulling air through a 60mm TB is wrong givin the amount of air that can be pulled in the engine in ONE second depending on RPMs. |
We're going to add to our warning system. Not only will we have a grammar warning, but now WonTon will have a math warning.
|
Originally Posted by thirdgen
(Post 710946)
How much time do you spend driving your car down the street? I want to know about the daily driven characteristics of a setup like this. I under stand WOT performance, but what about cruising?
I really dont think you do understand WOT performance.
Originally Posted by miata2fast
(Post 710952)
I have found that cruising along on the street is great. I have had no drivability problems at all. When you crack the throttle it is way more responsive than stock. If you tune it correctly, you will be amazed at how hard it accelerates with part throttle. It make the experience quite nice.
It took a while to get rid of the dead spot when I floored it, but after fiddling with it, I got it to go away. When 90R refers to alpha-n above hes refering to tuning with just tps and map as i explained earlier just to clarify to you. This is the setting you need to set MS (or any other ECU) to to run no map sensor input. Dann |
Originally Posted by Savington
(Post 711047)
What the fuck are you saying?
I think what I was trying to get across is that one stroke is irrelevant to the grand picture. In one second an engine can take in more air than I can breath in a minute. Its like breathing through a straw. If you open up the airway it gets easier to pull in air.
Originally Posted by curly
(Post 711048)
We're going to add to our warning system. Not only will we have a grammar warning, but now WonTon will have a math warning.
Atleast I think my math was right on the second try! :laugh: |
Originally Posted by Pusha
(Post 710779)
If you want to be so different, just live under a fucking bridge.
In case you missed his reasoning behind wanting ITBs: " mean think about it. If you have a LS-1 camaro and you get beat by a turbo Miata...you'll be like, "that thing weighs 1/2 my car, and I don't have boost...let me boost my car, then we'll see who wins". However, if you beat me, but I still can hang with you, you might say, "that thing is pretty fast, but I didn't hear it blow off. What? It's Not Boosted??? That's pretty mean!" ITB's change the whole power band. I have read that it's full throttle power from 3000-9000 RPM." |
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