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Old 07-07-2008, 05:48 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Pitlab77 View Post
WTF???

Its actually not changing a thing about how my factory belt latches on.


The factory 3 point uses the tension from your lap to hold your torso in, and the tension from your torso to tighten the lap belt.

By making the lap segment ineffective by using an additional lap belt, you reduce the effectiveness and lockup rate of the torso segment.
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Old 07-07-2008, 05:50 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenR View Post
The factory 3 point uses the tension from your lap to hold your torso in, and the tension from your torso to tighten the lap belt.

By making the lap segment ineffective by using an additional lap belt, you reduce the effectiveness and lockup rate of the torso segment.
The belt is already at tension before I leave the line. Dont be so quick to assume. Pull tug and set before you leave the line.

Plus you can also use items such as a G-lock to set the tension on the factory belt.
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Old 07-07-2008, 05:51 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by jayc72 View Post
Good point. I haven't yet.

Between my own extensive use of auto racing safety devices, throwing my own events in the past, and having a friend die at a PCA autocross.


I'm alittle more safety aware these days.
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Old 07-07-2008, 05:53 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitlab77 View Post
The belt is already at tension before I leave the line. Dont be so quick to assume. Pull tug and set before you leave the line.

Plus you can also use items such as a G-lock to set the tension on the factory belt.


I'd rather see someone use a G-lock and factory belts alone, than mixed harnesses and factory belts, or harnesses installed incorrectly. Once you throw your own events and are then in direct line of liability your perspective changes. You gotta assume that the guy at the like using mixed harnesses isn't using them correctly or pretensioning the torso strap on the 3 point.
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Old 07-07-2008, 05:54 PM   #25
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I take way more chances driving my car on the road where I have to contend with Ford F-350s than I ever will in a parking lot with a decently safe course design.

Sorry for the death of your friend.
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Old 07-07-2008, 05:55 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenR View Post
I'd rather see someone use a G-lock and factory belts alone, than mixed harnesses and factory belts, or harnesses installed incorrectly.
your biased opinions on the mixed harness. I know what you are saying about the hip helping set tension. But you dont you realize how much mobility I still have. The lap only keeps me from going side to side and It is set with plenty of froward travel. You need to sit in my car to see that it is really not hampering the function of the factory belt.

Although I will agree on the improperly mounted harnesses.
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Old 07-07-2008, 06:03 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitlab77 View Post
your biased opinions on the mixed harness. I know what you are saying about the hip helping set tension. But you dont you realize how much mobility I still have. The lap only keeps me from going side to side and It is set with plenty of froward travel. You need to sit in my car to see that it is really not hampering the function of the factory belt.

Although I will agree on the improperly mounted harnesses.


The only one that knows that your belt is tensioned would be you. Your club allowing that without also verifying the tension on your torso strap before every run is putting themselves in a pretty big liability situation.
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Old 07-07-2008, 06:06 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by jayc72 View Post
I take way more chances driving my car on the road where I have to contend with Ford F-350s than I ever will in a parking lot with a decently safe course design.

Sorry for the death of your friend.


I'm not going to argue that the streets are more or less dangerous. That's not a controlled environment, a closed autocross or track day is.



It's cool, he was a good guy, but **** like that changes your perspective on ****. I'm sure he wasn't planning on crashing either.
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Old 07-07-2008, 06:07 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by BenR View Post
The only one that knows that your belt is tensioned would be you. Your club allowing that without also verifying the tension on your torso strap before every run is putting themselves in a pretty big liability situation.
6 of one half a dozen of the other.

Its been looked at. The car has been nationally driven. It is fine.
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Old 07-07-2008, 06:10 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
I must be really cheap...i usually have someone tie me with twine to my seat just before a run.....


Is it SFI or FIA rated twine? You know it's only good for 2 years and needs to be replaced after that.
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Old 07-07-2008, 06:11 PM   #31
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If it really bothers you that much I'll bring it up with our safety stewarts once again.

Divisional are coming up.
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Old 07-07-2008, 06:23 PM   #32
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How you have it is definately not the worst way to do it. I'm sure it's safe enough, especially since you actually take the time to tension the factory 3 point so the torso is tensioned, but the liability would probably be there should something happen, and you or your family were douchebags that sued everyone.
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Old 07-07-2008, 10:51 PM   #33
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Interesting this thread pops up now.

My car is back at Corky's for some tuning and what-not, but also the installation of the Hard-Dog and Willians 6-pt camlock harnesses.

The last thing you want to go cheap on is safety gear...

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Old 07-07-2008, 11:29 PM   #34
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Good info all!

Did not mean to start a debate....who am I kidding MT seem to live on debates.

Can you use a 5-6 pt on a factory seat or is that another $300 I need to spend on a seat now?
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Old 07-08-2008, 07:57 PM   #35
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You can use a harness on the factory seats. You will get better results from a racing seat.

As with all mods, you have to ask yourself: Based upon how am I planning to use the car will the mod be worth the cost?

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Old 07-08-2008, 08:08 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by IcantDo55 View Post
Good info all!

Did not mean to start a debate....who am I kidding MT seem to live on debates.

Can you use a 5-6 pt on a factory seat or is that another $300 I need to spend on a seat now?


The harnesses will not be mounted correctly with a stock seat. IMO use the stock 3 poing with a G-lock, untill you're ready for a real seat.
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Old 07-09-2008, 03:58 AM   #37
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5pt. 3" Willans camlock coming in, together with a Hard Dog bar
seat mounting needs some minor tweaking tho..
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Old 07-09-2008, 09:54 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IcantDo55 View Post
Good info all!

Did not mean to start a debate....who am I kidding MT seem to live on debates.

Can you use a 5-6 pt on a factory seat or is that another $300 I need to spend on a seat now?
Only way I've seen a 5/6 point done somewhat correctly with a stock seat was someone who made cutouts + reinforcements for the shoulder belts (like a racing seat) so they would not slide off the shoulders. IIRC he also made a cutout in the seat for the anti-sub strap so it was at the right angle to prevent submarining as intended. So basically he turned his stocker into a racing seat.
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Old 07-09-2008, 05:21 PM   #39
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There's a guy around here who runs a 5 or 6-pt harness with cutouts so the belts pass through the stock seat, although it still looked like the shoulder belt angles might be suboptimal. It's probably okay for autox, assuming the stock seat would get your head under the roll bar with your helmet on. For any track duty I'd spend the extra coin and get a proper race seat.

At my height I pretty much had to go with an aluminum seat (Kirkey) bolted to the floor for my noggin to clear the bar. I run the G-force 6-pt camlock harness. And being a new-ish track driver, I've got instructors riding along, so with equal restraint rules in mind I basically bought all my safety gear times two. Not cheap, but then again it's nothing to skimp on and not terribly expensive in the grand scheme of things.

I'm pretty happy with the G-force harnesses, especially considering the $140 price. No problems inadvertently releasing the camlock. I believe the pull-up lap belt ones are SFI rated (good for 2 years for racing) and the pull-down ones are also FIA rated and good for 5 years. I don't think anyone checks your harness date at HPDEs or autox though, so that may not matter to you. The pull-up ones will be easier to adjust while seated, but I have the pull-down ones because that's what the store had in stock when I needed to buy them. With the lap belts, once you get them set you won't have to fiddle with them very often like you do with the shoulder belts, so the pull-down aspect doesn't bother me. The shoulder belts rubbed my neck a little so I picked up the extra pads and that helped a lot.
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Old 07-11-2008, 12:46 AM   #40
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I only run one track day event a year, for now, and my wife would never except a harness. What is the advantage of the cg-lock when you can just tug the shoulder strap and recline the seat forward?
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