Mazdaspeed Miata or Aftermarket Turbo Miata?
08-04-2009, 07:22 PM
#1
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Mazdaspeed Miata or Aftermarket Turbo Miata?
I've been wanting another miata for a while and this time I'd like a turbo miata
I like the mazdaspeed miata a lot.. and I'm thinking it should be more reliable and less trouble than a regular miata with an aftermarket turbo kit
Obviously there is the price difference also..
what would you guys recommend?
I like the mazdaspeed miata a lot.. and I'm thinking it should be more reliable and less trouble than a regular miata with an aftermarket turbo kit
Obviously there is the price difference also..
what would you guys recommend?
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08-04-2009, 07:48 PM
#2
It depends.
If you want a little more power than stock, without having to do any work, and with the option for bolt-on expansion, than the MSM is a good choice. It also gives you a head-start on other upgrades such as suspension, chassis bracing, clutch, etc., plus the MSM special bodywork.
If you want a GOOD turbo setup, you like to DIY, and/or you prefer the NA body style, then it's better to buy a regular Miata and turbo it.
If you want a little more power than stock, without having to do any work, and with the option for bolt-on expansion, than the MSM is a good choice. It also gives you a head-start on other upgrades such as suspension, chassis bracing, clutch, etc., plus the MSM special bodywork.
If you want a GOOD turbo setup, you like to DIY, and/or you prefer the NA body style, then it's better to buy a regular Miata and turbo it.
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08-04-2009, 08:06 PM
#5
I've been wanting another miata for a while and this time I'd like a turbo miata
I like the mazdaspeed miata a lot.. and I'm thinking it should be more reliable and less trouble than a regular miata with an aftermarket turbo kit
Obviously there is the price difference also..
what would you guys recommend?
I like the mazdaspeed miata a lot.. and I'm thinking it should be more reliable and less trouble than a regular miata with an aftermarket turbo kit
Obviously there is the price difference also..
what would you guys recommend?
mazdaspeed: basically same motor, tiny *** turbo, joke of an intercooler, piece of crap stock ecu, only cool stuff is the transmission/diff and the bilsteins. Lost of misc **** different but no one really cares about it. MUCH bigger price tag.
aftermarket: bigger turbo, good sized fmic, most running a good engine management, and many well sorted. smaller price tag.
There are exceptions to this but thats it for the most part.
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08-04-2009, 09:13 PM
#9
post this thread on this site also: Welcome to Mazda-speed
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08-04-2009, 09:39 PM
#12
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What are your HP/handling goals?
If you are just going to replace half the turbo parts and suspension in a MSM anyway, don't bother. If you are happy with one as is, and will remain happy, then it could be a good deal (although a used NB with an FM2 or similar is probably still a better idea).
If you are just going to replace half the turbo parts and suspension in a MSM anyway, don't bother. If you are happy with one as is, and will remain happy, then it could be a good deal (although a used NB with an FM2 or similar is probably still a better idea).
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08-04-2009, 10:03 PM
#13
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Mazdaspeed owners, eh?
If you are lazy and have money, get the Mazdaspeed. But if you are a broke *** college student/aspiring ricer/etc definitely get the NA miata and turbo it the right way.
The stock MSM turbo, ecu, and intercooler are all pretty **** in the grand scheme of things. But as mentioned, our bilstein dampers, bosch limited slip diff, and 6 speed transmission are worth having the cute wittle turbo and intercooler combo.
If you are lazy and have money, get the Mazdaspeed. But if you are a broke *** college student/aspiring ricer/etc definitely get the NA miata and turbo it the right way.
The stock MSM turbo, ecu, and intercooler are all pretty **** in the grand scheme of things. But as mentioned, our bilstein dampers, bosch limited slip diff, and 6 speed transmission are worth having the cute wittle turbo and intercooler combo.
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08-04-2009, 10:05 PM
#14
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Location: Killen, AL, 35645
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I have a Mazdaspeed Turbo System installed on my 1999 10th Anniversary with Voodoo Card engine management and timing set at 6BTDC.
Truth is, the Mazdaspeed Miata's have gone down on price pretty much. You can get a Velocity Red 2004 with 30-50,000 miles for practically 13,000-14,000. I'm finding that, the more I look into the Mazdaspeed Miata, the more little features it has that 01-05 Miatas' didn't have.
Lets start with the good stuff, we all know it has a nice set of 17x6 Racing Hart wheels, a supposedly stronger transmission, a bosch limited slip differential in a 4:30 final drive. (I would prefer a 3:90 myself) And the bilstein monotube shocks. Then there are other things...
Mazdaspeed swaybars.
Mazdaspeed springs.
Powdercoated brake calipers F+R and I betcha better pads too.
Turbo intake and exhaust cams.
Exedy Organic Clutch that is good for 288 ft-lbs of torque.
Kick *** powdercoated valve cover.
Direct Coil Ignition on a BPW4 motor.
And the engine internals are slightly stronger. Tom Neel of Parts Groups knows all about the little difference.
Thicker half shafts and stronger CV joints.
Great set of pedals, easier to heel toe.
Integrated Oil Catch can system with the strut tower brace.
Stainless steel turbo oil feed line, oil drain line, and water lines too
No VVT
Larger radiator, better radiator fans.
MSM exclusive chassis braces and butterfly brace.
I think even the bushings are made for more dimensional stability; they last longer...
An expensive as **** front lip spoiler that can be sold for 200-400 dollars if the market is good. As well as the rear lip spoiler and rear lip too
Expensive as **** headlights too
So there is a short little list...
Consider this, you buy a Velocity Red MSM with 60,000 miles for like 12,500 and recuperate some of your expense by selling the hot *** headlights, and ground effects, that is if you don't care for them. That's prolly around 1,500 dollars to boot right there once you sold all that. Use that 1,500 to transform the MSM from a 150 rear wheel horsepower car to one with about 200 rear wheel horsepower...All with affordable bolt-ons! Add an adaptronics ecu for another grand and you got a reliable 230 rear wheel horsepower, without even having to replace the clutch
Heck it can cost alot of money to start with say a stock 99' Miata. And if you don't have the facilities to work with, then you have to pay to use a shop. An ACT HD street clutch and labor to have a new clutch installed could run you around 500-600 dollars...
I've driven the 04-05 Mazdaspeed Miatas' and the biggest complaint I have with it was the 6500 rpm rev limiter, the boost that comes in too late, and the shitty ecu... True I can't think of a way to up the rev limiter (crystal mod maybe) but an 02 signal modifier for 60 dollars transforms the MSM's ECU and drivability. (I can testify to that)
The MSM's intake and exhaust is very restrictive from the factory, so be ready to work on that immediately. Purchase an affordable cold air intake such as the AEM intake. (248 dollars shipped and your choice of polished aluminum, or powdercoated red or blue) Purchase a manual boost controller like the one from flyin Miata (40 dollars); it is much better than the ecu controlled solenoid valve. Install a T-Bolt clamp on the throttle body intake hose to eliminate the problem of it blowing off. (5 dollars) Bell Engineering sales a kick *** recirculating bypass valve that doesn't leak, do that. Buy a 28x7.5x2.5 ebay intercooler (around 50 dollars) Then replace the downpipe, midpipe, and exhaust. (900 dollars should do) Just make sure it has a catalytic converter and a good resonator. Once you do all that, you'll be at 200 rear wheel horsepower running around 12:1 air/fuel ratios at 8.5 psi, and in six gear, you should hit full boost right around 2900 rpms. (instead of 4,000 LOL) So you got good reliable power for less than 1,300...
All this talk makes me wish I could trade my 10AE for an MSM.
Truth is, the Mazdaspeed Miata's have gone down on price pretty much. You can get a Velocity Red 2004 with 30-50,000 miles for practically 13,000-14,000. I'm finding that, the more I look into the Mazdaspeed Miata, the more little features it has that 01-05 Miatas' didn't have.
Lets start with the good stuff, we all know it has a nice set of 17x6 Racing Hart wheels, a supposedly stronger transmission, a bosch limited slip differential in a 4:30 final drive. (I would prefer a 3:90 myself) And the bilstein monotube shocks. Then there are other things...
Mazdaspeed swaybars.
Mazdaspeed springs.
Powdercoated brake calipers F+R and I betcha better pads too.
Turbo intake and exhaust cams.
Exedy Organic Clutch that is good for 288 ft-lbs of torque.
Kick *** powdercoated valve cover.
Direct Coil Ignition on a BPW4 motor.
And the engine internals are slightly stronger. Tom Neel of Parts Groups knows all about the little difference.
Thicker half shafts and stronger CV joints.
Great set of pedals, easier to heel toe.
Integrated Oil Catch can system with the strut tower brace.
Stainless steel turbo oil feed line, oil drain line, and water lines too
No VVT
Larger radiator, better radiator fans.
MSM exclusive chassis braces and butterfly brace.
I think even the bushings are made for more dimensional stability; they last longer...
An expensive as **** front lip spoiler that can be sold for 200-400 dollars if the market is good. As well as the rear lip spoiler and rear lip too
Expensive as **** headlights too
So there is a short little list...
Consider this, you buy a Velocity Red MSM with 60,000 miles for like 12,500 and recuperate some of your expense by selling the hot *** headlights, and ground effects, that is if you don't care for them. That's prolly around 1,500 dollars to boot right there once you sold all that. Use that 1,500 to transform the MSM from a 150 rear wheel horsepower car to one with about 200 rear wheel horsepower...All with affordable bolt-ons! Add an adaptronics ecu for another grand and you got a reliable 230 rear wheel horsepower, without even having to replace the clutch
Heck it can cost alot of money to start with say a stock 99' Miata. And if you don't have the facilities to work with, then you have to pay to use a shop. An ACT HD street clutch and labor to have a new clutch installed could run you around 500-600 dollars...
I've driven the 04-05 Mazdaspeed Miatas' and the biggest complaint I have with it was the 6500 rpm rev limiter, the boost that comes in too late, and the shitty ecu... True I can't think of a way to up the rev limiter (crystal mod maybe) but an 02 signal modifier for 60 dollars transforms the MSM's ECU and drivability. (I can testify to that)
The MSM's intake and exhaust is very restrictive from the factory, so be ready to work on that immediately. Purchase an affordable cold air intake such as the AEM intake. (248 dollars shipped and your choice of polished aluminum, or powdercoated red or blue) Purchase a manual boost controller like the one from flyin Miata (40 dollars); it is much better than the ecu controlled solenoid valve. Install a T-Bolt clamp on the throttle body intake hose to eliminate the problem of it blowing off. (5 dollars) Bell Engineering sales a kick *** recirculating bypass valve that doesn't leak, do that. Buy a 28x7.5x2.5 ebay intercooler (around 50 dollars) Then replace the downpipe, midpipe, and exhaust. (900 dollars should do) Just make sure it has a catalytic converter and a good resonator. Once you do all that, you'll be at 200 rear wheel horsepower running around 12:1 air/fuel ratios at 8.5 psi, and in six gear, you should hit full boost right around 2900 rpms. (instead of 4,000 LOL) So you got good reliable power for less than 1,300...
All this talk makes me wish I could trade my 10AE for an MSM.
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08-04-2009, 10:09 PM
#15
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The stock Mazdaspeed IHI RBF-5 turbocharger, from what most people tell me, is very comparable in terms of power potential to the GT2554R. So 230 rear wheel horsepower is about as much as you want to push out of the IHI. I've supercharged three miatas and turboed two. My fastest Miata was my 97' with the MSPNP, 460cc injectors, and Bell engineering's Series 3 system with a GT2860RS. It made around 260 rear wheel horsepower and was pretty damn fast. But in my honest opinion, 200 rear wheel horsepower is just perfect for a Miata. And it is pretty ******* fast too, you'll have no prob hitting 140 mph...
I love my Mazdaspeed turbo system on my 1999 10th AE. I haven't replace the intake yet, but I am using a 2.5 inch enthuza dual exhaust with the 2.5 inch flyin miata midpipe and the stock 99-2000 naturally aspirated downpipe. My spool up is so fast!
I love my Mazdaspeed turbo system on my 1999 10th AE. I haven't replace the intake yet, but I am using a 2.5 inch enthuza dual exhaust with the 2.5 inch flyin miata midpipe and the stock 99-2000 naturally aspirated downpipe. My spool up is so fast!
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08-04-2009, 10:13 PM
#16
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Seattle
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To echo Cody a bit here:
"Integrated Oil Catch can system with the strut tower brace.
Stainless steel turbo oil feed line, oil drain line, and water lines too
"
are the 2 primary reasons I still have my stock turbo, even though its a pretty **** unit for output, it has the potential for quick spool, and the lines are very nice.
However, I change my answer, if you have money and are lazy, buy this car: https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t37729/
"Integrated Oil Catch can system with the strut tower brace.
Stainless steel turbo oil feed line, oil drain line, and water lines too
"
are the 2 primary reasons I still have my stock turbo, even though its a pretty **** unit for output, it has the potential for quick spool, and the lines are very nice.
However, I change my answer, if you have money and are lazy, buy this car: https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t37729/
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08-04-2009, 10:21 PM
#17
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Location: Overland Park, Kansas
Posts: 5,360
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Former MSMfag checking in.
I miss the car. Picked it up for 14k in 2006 with 15,000 miles. Sold it for 18k in 2007 with 34,000 miles. Changed the oil every ~4000 miles with synthetic, blew through a few sets of tires, never really abused it. Never even cut one donut in it, but many many many powerslides around corners.. Surprised the **** out of 350z/G35, Mustang, and Camaro owners alike.
They had their downfalls, True. It'd be a great platform to start on IMHO. If you weren't ever interested in reselling it, find a good deal on a mid mileage MSM, pull the engine and sell it on ebay for 8000$ like every scrap yard tries, and build a forged motor with big BEGI or FM turbo setup. Or, DIY It.
I miss the car. Picked it up for 14k in 2006 with 15,000 miles. Sold it for 18k in 2007 with 34,000 miles. Changed the oil every ~4000 miles with synthetic, blew through a few sets of tires, never really abused it. Never even cut one donut in it, but many many many powerslides around corners.. Surprised the **** out of 350z/G35, Mustang, and Camaro owners alike.
They had their downfalls, True. It'd be a great platform to start on IMHO. If you weren't ever interested in reselling it, find a good deal on a mid mileage MSM, pull the engine and sell it on ebay for 8000$ like every scrap yard tries, and build a forged motor with big BEGI or FM turbo setup. Or, DIY It.
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08-04-2009, 10:23 PM
#18
To echo Cody a bit here:
"Integrated Oil Catch can system with the strut tower brace.
Stainless steel turbo oil feed line, oil drain line, and water lines too
"
are the 2 primary reasons I still have my stock turbo, even though its a pretty **** unit for output, it has the potential for quick spool, and the lines are very nice.
However, I change my answer, if you have money and are lazy, buy this car: https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t37729/
"Integrated Oil Catch can system with the strut tower brace.
Stainless steel turbo oil feed line, oil drain line, and water lines too
"
are the 2 primary reasons I still have my stock turbo, even though its a pretty **** unit for output, it has the potential for quick spool, and the lines are very nice.
However, I change my answer, if you have money and are lazy, buy this car: https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t37729/
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0
0
08-04-2009, 10:33 PM
#19
There will be a very interesting comparison when I dyno this fall - my car vs. Paul's old daily and/or his gf's current daily. Both are 2554, MS, 14-15 psi, Absurdflow, big IC, big injectors, COPS, etc. ...... essentially the same as my MSM will be at that time except for the turbo (ported MSM-IHI here.)
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