My sister's MSM won't make boost for some reason...ideas, give them to me - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 04-08-2010, 11:27 AM   #1
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Default My sister's MSM won't make boost for some reason...ideas, give them to me

It threw a belt last weekend at the track and apparently it took somewhere between 2-4 hours for several men to replace the belt...lots of stuff was removed. Then, it threw the belt off the next day on the way to work.

Soooooooooooooooooo I went over to my Sister's to replace a water pump belt (20-minutes, not 2-hours)and now that the car is back together it won't make any boost. It looks like all vac-hoses are hooked-up, none leak, and the boost-solenoid is connected. However, I'm concerned that it may be a mechanical issue since its making no boost and I can't hear the turbo spin-up, I'd expect too much boost if it were a vac-hose or boost control problem.

There are a lot of electronics in this car so I don't trust my judgment here. Any ideas on where I should start if:
every electrical connection is plugged-in
vac-hoses are connected properly
no disconnected intercooler piping
wastegate actuator moves with the aid of pliers
blow-off valve is still springy feeling, but a little soft compared to my tial and bosch valves

Here is a nifty diagram to reference:

p.s. My home-grown turbo car is more reliable and easier to work on than modern ****.
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Old 04-08-2010, 11:35 AM   #2
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My professional guess would be to check either number 7 or number 15.
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Old 04-08-2010, 11:40 AM   #3
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My professional guess would be to check either number 7 or number 15.
I checked your GF with my dipstick a couple times. She said my masculinity and sexuality triggered a physiological response stronger than any she ever experienced with a man outside of a few select NBA teams.
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Old 04-08-2010, 12:18 PM   #4
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I checked your GF with my dipstick a couple times. She said my masculinity and sexuality triggered a physiological response stronger than any she ever experienced with a man outside of a few select NBA teams.
Dude....that one was goood. If you came up with that yourself I'm impressed. You both called his girl a *****, while insulting his masculinity all at the same time. I normally wouldn't comment, but I got a good chuckle out of that one.

I'm glad it's all in jest.




I would guess that something isn't right, electrically, that is prompting the ECU to tell the boost controller thingy to bleed off all pressure.

If it were mechanical (besides locked up turbine shaft) I'd expect it to still make at least a few pounds. Not going over 100kPa sounds like an engineered nanny to me.
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Old 04-08-2010, 12:30 PM   #5
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I checked your GF with my dipstick a couple times. She said my masculinity and sexuality triggered a physiological response stronger than any she ever experienced with a man outside of a few select NBA teams.
clever
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Old 04-08-2010, 12:30 PM   #6
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I vote check the turbo inlet and make sure that little bugger isn't locked up. I don't think those came with a pop off valve to bleed boost and given the fact that it isn't speed density based, it would run like total dog **** if it blew a hose off.
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Old 04-08-2010, 12:32 PM   #7
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Dude....that one was goood. If you came up with that yourself I'm impressed. You both called his girl a *****, while insulting his masculinity all at the same time. I normally wouldn't comment, but I got a good chuckle out of that one.

I'm glad it's all in jest.
lol


Quote:
I would guess that something isn't right, electrically, that is prompting the ECU to tell the boost controller thingy to bleed off all pressure.

If it were mechanical (besides locked up turbine shaft) I'd expect it to still make at least a few pounds. Not going over 100kPa sounds like an engineered nanny to me.
How does the wastegate open to stay at 100kpa if there is no boost to put it there? What spring is in the wastegate? Is there any way to check these sensors and solenoids or is this more dealer drama?

Its time for my sister to get away from this modern crap and get an NA.
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Old 04-08-2010, 12:34 PM   #8
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I vote check the turbo inlet and make sure that little bugger isn't locked up. I don't think those came with a pop off valve to bleed boost and given the fact that it isn't speed density based, it would run like total dog **** if it blew a hose off.
This is my immediate fear that I could not communicate to my sister. Are MSM turbos failing after extended track use?
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Old 04-08-2010, 12:41 PM   #9
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How does the wastegate open to stay at 100kpa if there is no boost to put it there? What spring is in the wastegate? Is there any way to check these sensors and solenoids or is this more dealer drama?

Its time for my sister to get away from this modern crap and get an NA.
I really don't know anything about MSMs...pure speculation. I was assuming it was a solenoid operated unit or something.

Then again they did put a tiny, outdated, and weak IHI on those cars, so wouldn't be surprised if it's '50s tech.
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Old 04-08-2010, 01:01 PM   #10
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Is the wastegate pushrod connected?
(I always tend to overlook the obvious, so, this may be the case)

Did you ever get to the track? Or, did the brakes not arrive in time?
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Old 04-08-2010, 01:03 PM   #11
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if the turbo wasnt spinning (or more likely, the compresor wheel being fucked) you'd know it. This sounds like the ecu is being a *** like usual. Its either the ecu, the stock boost solenoid, or the stock bypass valve. Quit being a puss and slap on a manual boost controller, loop that **** stock piece, and it wouldnt hurt to try a different bypass valve, that stock piece is also fuckall worthless.
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Old 04-08-2010, 01:09 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by alik View Post
Is the wastegate pushrod connected?
(I always tend to overlook the obvious, so, this may be the case)

Did you ever get to the track? Or, did the brakes not arrive in time?
The actuator is hooked up correctly.

The brakes are still not here. Fed Ex says they were in Dallas, but then they went back in transit to Atlanta for some reason. Now they're back on their way to Dallas.
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Old 04-08-2010, 01:10 PM   #13
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if the turbo wasnt spinning (or more likely, the compresor wheel being fucked) you'd know it. This sounds like the ecu is being a *** like usual. Its either the ecu, the stock boost solenoid, or the stock bypass valve. Quit being a puss and slap on a manual boost controller, loop that **** stock piece, and it wouldnt hurt to try a different bypass valve, that stock piece is also fuckall worthless.
Link to instructions on this ****? It can't be this simple.

What should my target MAP be? I guess I need to find a spare boost gauge.
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Old 04-08-2010, 01:17 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by DontPassTheFence View Post
Its either the ecu,
How exactly would that prevent boost except for boost cut? And you would KNOW if it was boost cut.

Quote:
the stock boost solenoid,
Cant lower boost below the wastegate minimum.

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or the stock bypass valve.
Ok, that would could be leaking to the point where you wouldn't make any boost. And because it is recirculated, you could theoretically leak all of the positive pressure through it and get a proper airflow signal, but I seriously doubt it. If that thing was leaking enough air that you got absolutely NO positive pressure at the manifold you would probably get some sort of weird reversion after the MAF that would cause fucked up airflow readings = the car would run like total and complete ****.
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Old 04-08-2010, 01:20 PM   #15
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well if you'd like to start at the most difficult fix, go yank the turbo and try spinning it by hand! But I'd suggest checking the dumbass plastic bits first.
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Old 04-08-2010, 01:24 PM   #16
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well if you'd like to start at the most difficult fix, go yank the turbo and try spinning it by hand! But I'd suggest checking the dumbass plastic bits first.
Its not that I like to start with the most difficult expensive ****, its that I like starting with the most logical. As much fun as it would be to chase magical boost leaking unicorns with rainbows coming out of their asses, I could just as easily save myself from wasting time and undo a few hose clamps, stick my fingers in the inlet of the turbo and give it a twirl (insert comment about your mom/sister/girlfriend/I'm getting lazy).
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Old 04-08-2010, 01:27 PM   #17
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after checking a few threads over on the gay forums, I have found that 2 people have had this happen before on stock or near-stock MSM cars.

One guy had a leak post intercooler, and the other had a wastegate flapper that was stuck wide open.

The wastegate arm (at the turbine outlet, not the actuator visable from outside) is notoriously ****, so that seems plausible to me.
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Old 04-08-2010, 01:30 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by DontPassTheFence View Post
after checking a few threads over on the gay forums, I have found that 2 people have had this happen before on stock or near-stock MSM cars.

One guy had a leak post intercooler, and the other had a wastegate flapper that was stuck wide open.

The wastegate arm (at the turbine outlet, not the actuator visable from outside) is notoriously ****, so that seems plausible to me.
A broken flapper door does sound like a very plausible scenario.
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Old 04-08-2010, 01:40 PM   #19
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If the arm is hooked up, the flapper is a very likely candidate. This scenario happened to me (non-MSM). That being said: taking off the intake and spinning the wheel does make sense as a first step since it takes considerably less time than removing the DP.

We can solve this issue much faster if you post nudes of your sister holding her turbo and manifold. Thank you.
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Old 04-08-2010, 01:56 PM   #20
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That picture is clearly wrong about #1. The charcoal canister on NBs is actually located behind and below the pass seat under the car. That tank is more of a fuel vapor catch can and contains no charcoal. With that said, I would not trust all the other labels and numbers, they could be wrong as well.

How does the car drive? Like normal in vac? What happens at WOT? Is the car bone stock?
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