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Old 03-03-2007, 11:48 PM   #1
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Default Need to know about LC-1

I forgot about my tax return coming in, so now I have some wiggle room in my budget. The best way I think to spend it is the LC-1 wideband.

I read EVERY thread on it and I just want to make sure I understand it completely before I buy it. I am speaking of the base $199.99 kit.

First my concern. They talk about watershock causing damage. If I install this in the test pipe location will I need to worry about this?

How does the NB output effect the EMB/Autotune setup? It's unclear to me, does this mean I am able to run the o2 clamp, stock ECU, Emanage AND a gauge off of it? Not sure on this feature.

I've read to install the heat sink, I have a NB gauge to run it to, I will be able to datalog with it and it has open air calibration. So far EVERY thread pointed twords the LC-1, and it seems like the best idea for my budget, so if you guys could just clear up those two things for me it would be awsome! Thanks.
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Old 03-03-2007, 11:53 PM   #2
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put the LC1 in place of the normal 02 sensor set it up for 1 channel of NB to keep your stock ecu happy and the other of WB for the Emanage dunno if you need an 02 clamp on that. i havent installed mine yet but if you dont have a serial port make sure you get an adapter from radio shack to set it up
via laptop etc.
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Old 03-04-2007, 12:22 AM   #3
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I found that the original o2 sensor bung in the greddy downpipe was too close and caused problems with my LC-1 sensor. Once I moved it further down stream things were better. Running the heatsink/shield may have helped.

You shouldn't have any trouble with the sensor as long as you follow innovate's mounting recomendations.
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Old 03-04-2007, 11:07 PM   #4
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I plan to build a custom downpipe and place the stock o2 sensor where the greddy is and put a bung where the cat used to be for the LC-1. I'm REALLY glad about my refund, now I don't have to visit the dyno thats 40 miles away.
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Old 03-04-2007, 11:12 PM   #5
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Mine is installed just before the cat and it works perfect. Agreed- good place to spend your tax return... unless you don't have a girlfriend. :gay:
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Old 03-04-2007, 11:15 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miataspeed1point6 View Post
First my concern. They talk about watershock causing damage. If I install this in the test pipe location will I need to worry about this?
Not sure if this will help because I have the LM-1...

When I start the car, I turn the key to "on" and the sensor preheats so that water will not damage it. Don't know if the LC-1 is the same.

I do know that you should mount it on top of the exhaust pipe to help minimize the sensor's contact with water, but that's obvious I suppose.
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Old 03-04-2007, 11:18 PM   #7
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LC-1 has the same heating procedure. I usually turn the key on and wait for the fuel pump to complete pressurizing with the Link too. There's a spec on mounting the sensor - basically can't be horizonal or less (tilted towards point upward). There's plenty of room above the exhaust in the trans tunnel to mount it vertical- that's where mine is.
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Old 03-04-2007, 11:23 PM   #8
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Mine is located there as well. Cord runs up right by the shifter.
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Old 03-05-2007, 06:01 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m2cupcar View Post
Agreed- good place to spend your tax return... unless you don't have a girlfriend. :gay:
I do have a girlfriend, and she agreed with me that I need a wideband. I dumped all this money into the car, whats another $200 to make sure I don't blow it up? But I'm sure she will get something out of it somehow...she always does lol.

Thanks for all the replys. Only thing I'm still unclear of is if I will need the o2 clamp/Autotune boxes still? I read somewhere the LC-1 has an Autotune, but I don't think it's the same is it?
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Old 03-05-2007, 06:15 PM   #10
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you will need everything you already have. the lc-1 replaces nothing except possibly the stock nb sensor itself, but that seems successful only ~50% of the time. I'd put the wb sensor in its own bung and run it completely independent of any other electronics, as you don't have an ecu that is capable of doing anything with its output.

Hmm.. BUT does your EMB have an additional analog input that you could use to be able to input the wb analog signal for datalogging? that way you could see all the parameters on the same chart.
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Old 03-05-2007, 06:21 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
Hmm.. BUT does your EMB have an additional analog input that you could use to be able to input the wb analog signal for datalogging? that way you could see all the parameters on the same chart.
if so, that would dramatically increase the usefullness of the LC1
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Old 03-06-2007, 10:05 AM   #12
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Sorry to be so lame, but how would I check for the extra input? I think it can, as I remember reading a post about datalogging with the WB and how much better it was than having to glance at the gauge while logging.

Thanks Ben for the info, I was really curious about those.
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Old 03-06-2007, 10:13 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miataspeed1point6 View Post
Sorry to be so lame, but how would I check for the extra input? I think it can
There are several people here well versed in the EMB. If they don't chime in, start a new thread about it. I'd be surprised if no one had that idea already.
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Old 03-06-2007, 10:48 AM   #14
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Why would he have issues using the LC1 as a replacement for his stock o2? It can output in analog and replace it 100%, and actually provide an accurate "narrowband".

If the EMB logs factory o2, he can splice his line into the incoming o2 sensor input and should be set. The LC1 can have its analog settings setup to output within narrowband voltages.

Personally, I just tune the car and never turn o2 corrects back on... but with my honda stuff, I just bring the wideband o2 data in through the stock o2 wiring so I can datalog it through the ECU along with the factory parameters.
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Old 03-06-2007, 10:59 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splitime View Post
Why would he have issues using the LC1 as a replacement for his stock o2? It can output in analog and replace it 100%, and actually provide an accurate "narrowband".
That's the difference between theory and reality. It only works in some applications. I couldn't get mine to work, so I called Innovate's tech support line. They literally told me to pound sand as they didn't recommend using the lc to sim NB (even though it's an advertised feature).
You also run into the situation that the factory NB lives close to the turbine, and the WB needs a new location closer to the cat. Also, a NB is more accurate at gas stoich than a WB is.


Quote:
If the EMB logs factory o2, he can splice his line into the incoming o2 sensor input and should be set. The LC1 can have its analog settings setup to output within narrowband voltages.
Not a bad idea, but it would be easier to deal with if the scale were larger.
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Old 03-06-2007, 06:42 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miataspeed1point6 View Post
Sorry to be so lame, but how would I check for the extra input? I think it can, as I remember reading a post about datalogging with the WB and how much better it was than having to glance at the gauge while logging.

Thanks Ben for the info, I was really curious about those.
I am in the process of connecting my LC1 to my Emanage (Blue), so I have been researching the subject a little. I have located the following information so far:

According to post #5 of thread: "I use my lc-1's feedback to the tps wire on my emanage...then I get rpm scaling for tuning during logging."

https://www.miataturbo.net/forums/sh...ht=O2+wideband

According to post #2 of thread: "It should be 0-5V. You could use the TPS or MAF(if you weren't using the MAF for anything else) You'd have to reset the TPS to 0-5V -- or just setup the TPS as normal, then disconnect the TPS from the car and just feed the wire from the WBO2 into the unit."

https://www.miataturbo.net/forums/sh...ht=O2+wideband
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Old 03-06-2007, 06:50 PM   #17
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There was a theory that you could enable the second MAF on the EMB, add an additional pin the harness and read 0-5V from the WB. There was a thread on how to do it on some Toyota Celica forum. I know someone here tested it.

Ha found it, I never throw away anything

http://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?t=187913
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Old 03-06-2007, 06:52 PM   #18
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You won't be able to use your TPS for this function since you will be using it to accept the output from the autotune.
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Old 03-06-2007, 07:46 PM   #19
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Feed the NB sim to the ECU as you may get a little better gas milage when not in boost, some people with other cars have experienced this as did I when I ran my LC-1 that way.

Feed the WB into autotune and a gauge if you like to monitor.

As long as the o2 sensor is installed in such a way that water will not pool (e.g. at the top of the exhaust tube facing the sky instead of horizontal or below, condensation/water damage is a non-issue.

As long as the LC-1 is about 10-12 inches away from the turbo you should not need a heatsink. If it's in the DP right by the turbo, then yes, add a heat sink.

As for WB logging in EMB, you can not use the TPS input as you will need this for autotune, but using the emanage alpha tool (search the dedicated emanage forums), you can input and log the WB into the AFM2 input, however, you will only be able to log and view this with the alpha tool and not with the usual emanage tool.
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Old 03-07-2007, 12:17 PM   #20
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With the autotune, you can either feed it the WB signal, or the NB.

Personally, I would put the WB in a second bung, then feed the signal into the Air Flow Metre II input. I've already tried this, and it was working -- sort of with the NB....

If you get the latest version of the Emanage Tools software (there was a thread in the emanage forum).... you can use that to read the AFM-II input, and use that against the RPM, and other stuff to tune accordingly.....

Dave,
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