Problem Found! New Block, New Concerns, Please Read Page 4
07-20-2008, 03:18 PM
#42
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I guess I was pretty lucky, could have been MUCH worse, I mean imagine if gas was 4 bucks a gallon instead of 2.XX then!
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07-20-2008, 10:35 PM
#44
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I am still thinking something broke and is either catching at the bottom of Cyl 1 or 4 or something is getting caught on the crank.
It rotates perfectly smooth until you hit that "wall". I still wonder if something like an oil ring broke, or maybe a rod bolt did come lose. Like I said Saturday, drop the oil pan first and see if anything falls out. I have a feeling that as soon as the oil pan comes off the answer will be found.
BTW, it was no problem helping you out. I am just glad my girl or my roommate didn't have a problem hanging around the shop. Also I will get the photos cleaned up and send you a link to them.
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07-22-2008, 01:43 AM
#45
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TADA!!!!
Congrats to you guys calling a bent rod. I really just did not want that to be the case. Fortunately, the crank is not scarred in the least. What was causing the stop was the crank contacting the bottom of the piston where the wrist pin goes through:
Cylinder #1...
OK, so things I need to know to to get moving in the right direction here:
1. How can you test injectors to make sure they are not stuck open? I'm praying that the rod was already about to go, and just bit the dust when the car was being started. But with the evidence of fuel on the plug, I'm not so sure, but thinking that may have just been what made it in the cylinder from the start up sequence. And there was NO pooled fuel inside the cylinder to indicate hydrolock (if it hadn't evaporated off of the plug that soon, there'd be evidence in the cylinder), so it's confusing. I'm just hoping the injectors or their servicing did not cause this problem. So thus the test.
2. For the ATL guys, anyone know any reputable machining shops? Going to go ahead and install forged pistons and rods. Need to get the work done though. No serious power build, but figure that since the engine is apart, might as well toughen it up.
Overall not a good day.
Congrats to you guys calling a bent rod. I really just did not want that to be the case. Fortunately, the crank is not scarred in the least. What was causing the stop was the crank contacting the bottom of the piston where the wrist pin goes through:
Cylinder #1...
OK, so things I need to know to to get moving in the right direction here:
1. How can you test injectors to make sure they are not stuck open? I'm praying that the rod was already about to go, and just bit the dust when the car was being started. But with the evidence of fuel on the plug, I'm not so sure, but thinking that may have just been what made it in the cylinder from the start up sequence. And there was NO pooled fuel inside the cylinder to indicate hydrolock (if it hadn't evaporated off of the plug that soon, there'd be evidence in the cylinder), so it's confusing. I'm just hoping the injectors or their servicing did not cause this problem. So thus the test.
2. For the ATL guys, anyone know any reputable machining shops? Going to go ahead and install forged pistons and rods. Need to get the work done though. No serious power build, but figure that since the engine is apart, might as well toughen it up.
Overall not a good day.
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07-22-2008, 04:33 AM
#47
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Makes it even worse that you just sold a set of rods....good luck with the rebuild. Must be one beast of starter....EBay that bitch with the story, you might makae some money 
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07-22-2008, 06:27 AM
#48
Miata injectors are open on ground. So if you installed the injectors and pinched a wire under the bolt by the rail, the injectors would stay open as you cranked it over. Check your injector wiring and make sure none of them got caught under the bolt that holds the injector harness to the head. There is a bracket in that area that you usually loosen to remove the injector clips.
I don't know this because I'm a brilliant ************. I know this because I hydrolocked a motor in my '90 when I reinstalled it.
Frank
I don't know this because I'm a brilliant ************. I know this because I hydrolocked a motor in my '90 when I reinstalled it.
Frank
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07-22-2008, 10:26 AM
#49
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KPLAFIN - Why would I want to even think about selling the starter? It's a keeper!!!
fmowry - No good, but I guess you have to learn some things from experience.
However, I did check the wiring post-install just to make sure nothing was caught, kinked, or otherwise. I checked, double-checked, and triple-checked everything I touched or moved. (And my roommate was getting impatient and calling me OCD about it. lol)
fmowry - No good, but I guess you have to learn some things from experience.
However, I did check the wiring post-install just to make sure nothing was caught, kinked, or otherwise. I checked, double-checked, and triple-checked everything I touched or moved. (And my roommate was getting impatient and calling me OCD about it. lol)
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07-22-2008, 11:22 AM
#50
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KPLAFIN - Why would I want to even think about selling the starter? It's a keeper!!!
fmowry - No good, but I guess you have to learn some things from experience.
However, I did check the wiring post-install just to make sure nothing was caught, kinked, or otherwise. I checked, double-checked, and triple-checked everything I touched or moved. (And my roommate was getting impatient and calling me OCD about it. lol)
fmowry - No good, but I guess you have to learn some things from experience.
However, I did check the wiring post-install just to make sure nothing was caught, kinked, or otherwise. I checked, double-checked, and triple-checked everything I touched or moved. (And my roommate was getting impatient and calling me OCD about it. lol)
Again man it sucks what happen, but it was still fun to pulling your motor out.
Oh you need to post the photos of the best way to install the Bell Downpipe
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07-22-2008, 11:31 AM
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Ben
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07-22-2008, 11:34 AM
#52
Rotornut check out these guys
http://www.chastainraceengines.com
They built my engine and did a great job. They Quoted me $1500 but I ended up spending a little over $1k. I brought them the engine disassembled, along with all my own parts, the block was cleaned, bored, and decked, the head was rebuild with multi angle valve job and oversized intake valves, decked head, fully balanced, etc. They also assembled the engine to the timing belt.
EDIT- looks like their website is down right now.
http://www.chastainraceengines.com
They built my engine and did a great job. They Quoted me $1500 but I ended up spending a little over $1k. I brought them the engine disassembled, along with all my own parts, the block was cleaned, bored, and decked, the head was rebuild with multi angle valve job and oversized intake valves, decked head, fully balanced, etc. They also assembled the engine to the timing belt.
EDIT- looks like their website is down right now.
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07-22-2008, 12:22 PM
#53
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Thanks Ben and Justin!
To answer your question Ben, I want to do the work myself, but would need a shop to make sure that the cylinders are properly bored (probably going with either a .010 or .020 over piston) and that the crank is in good shape, balanced, etc., and that when everything goes together it all will fit properly. Realistically, I'd love a place where I can learn to do the building work with an experienced eye and hand ready to help out if needed. However, that may prove hard to find...
That being the case, I don't want to screw anything up, so maybe having someone experienced just do the work may be the easier route to go since I haven't built an engine alone before. But all the parts of course will be supplied.
And this may sound dumb, but I really think I'm going to end up leaving the head alone for now. I'm trying to forge the internals on a strict budget at the moment.
To answer your question Ben, I want to do the work myself, but would need a shop to make sure that the cylinders are properly bored (probably going with either a .010 or .020 over piston) and that the crank is in good shape, balanced, etc., and that when everything goes together it all will fit properly. Realistically, I'd love a place where I can learn to do the building work with an experienced eye and hand ready to help out if needed. However, that may prove hard to find...
That being the case, I don't want to screw anything up, so maybe having someone experienced just do the work may be the easier route to go since I haven't built an engine alone before. But all the parts of course will be supplied.
And this may sound dumb, but I really think I'm going to end up leaving the head alone for now. I'm trying to forge the internals on a strict budget at the moment.
Last edited by RotorNutFD3S; 07-22-2008 at 01:32 PM.
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07-22-2008, 07:09 PM
#56
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Yep! Except I'm not liking the price tag right now. lol
In any case, I'm strongly considering a MSM short block at the moment. I would prefer to get that in there just to get the car going for now, and build my current block on my time schedule and budget. And when I have the built block ready, I can toss over the nice support plate.
Rumor also has it that those engines have a dedicated spot to get coolant to the turbo and the pan is already tapped for oil return. I'm liking that. Just hoping that it will be a pretty uncomplicated swap into my car.
In any case, I'm strongly considering a MSM short block at the moment. I would prefer to get that in there just to get the car going for now, and build my current block on my time schedule and budget. And when I have the built block ready, I can toss over the nice support plate.
Rumor also has it that those engines have a dedicated spot to get coolant to the turbo and the pan is already tapped for oil return. I'm liking that. Just hoping that it will be a pretty uncomplicated swap into my car.
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07-22-2008, 07:32 PM
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http://forum.miata.net/vb/showpost.p...69&postcount=7
which makes me wonder how much more power could the MSM make with a 99-00 style intake manifold.
Originally Posted by Keith
The MSM engine is essentially a 2001-05 one with 9:1 compression, 1999-00 head and a 2001-05 intake manifold. Plus that turbo thing. I've heard all sorts of miraculous things attributed to the car and some are true (stronger halfshafts for 150 rwhp!) but I don't think the rods are different. There's nothing visibly different and I don't recall any claims of extra rod strength. There are some really interesting subtle differences such as a water pump inlet casting that gives a bit more room to package the turbo inlet.
The VTCS is just a pain in the butt. Remove the butterflies and the shaft, then fill in the holes between runners.
All the major parts are "clean and assemble", really. You can put the MBSP on any 1.8 block if you use a 2001-05 oil pan. The 1.8 heads will all swap from one block to another. The 1999-00 and 2001-05 intake manifolds interchange although you'll want to control the VICS and VTCS differently. Any 1.8 exhaust manifold will bolt to any 1.8 head, although the EGR plumbing can cause problems if you start mixing NA exhaust manifolds with NB intakes.
The VTCS is just a pain in the butt. Remove the butterflies and the shaft, then fill in the holes between runners.
All the major parts are "clean and assemble", really. You can put the MBSP on any 1.8 block if you use a 2001-05 oil pan. The 1.8 heads will all swap from one block to another. The 1999-00 and 2001-05 intake manifolds interchange although you'll want to control the VICS and VTCS differently. Any 1.8 exhaust manifold will bolt to any 1.8 head, although the EGR plumbing can cause problems if you start mixing NA exhaust manifolds with NB intakes.
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07-23-2008, 12:01 PM
#58
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I just unwrapped and lifted a MSM block to study it. Pretty neat thing really. For coolant flow, they tapped a water jacket on one end, and it goes to a "Y" in the mixing manifold pipe on the other. Oil supply has a fitting just like the earlier cars. Oil return has a flanged fitting right below the turbo in the pan. The cold side of the pan has another flanged oil return fitting for the catch can. Good stuff.
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07-23-2008, 12:49 PM
#59
That or, you could have dropped something down in the head when changing the injectors. I did this once on my mustang. A (very) tiny screw fell down in the injector hole and logded between a valve. I didn't know at first. After I pulled the head I found the srew. I've also seen started break a tooth and lodge between the flywheel and cause a similar problem. I'd probably pull the injectors back out first to make sure something did not fall off it, like the pintle or plastic cap.
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07-23-2008, 07:19 PM
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That or, you could have dropped something down in the head when changing the injectors. I did this once on my mustang. A (very) tiny screw fell down in the injector hole and logded between a valve. I didn't know at first. After I pulled the head I found the srew. I've also seen started break a tooth and lodge between the flywheel and cause a similar problem. I'd probably pull the injectors back out first to make sure something did not fall off it, like the pintle or plastic cap.
Look up a few post and you will see a lovely picture of his motor, with a nice bent rod. That was a bad sight to see at 9pm after busting are a$$es to get his motor out.
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