Problem Found! New Block, New Concerns, Please Read Page 4 - Page 3 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


General Miata Chat A place to talk about anything Miata

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 07-20-2008, 04:15 PM   #41
Elite Member
iTrader: (14)
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 4,921
Total Cats: 0
Default

Riddle me this. How could a bad injector o-ring flood the engine? Only a stuck open injector would be able to flood the engine, a bad o-ring would cause fuel to leak out the fuel rail once the fuel pump is on.
jayc72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2008, 04:18 PM   #42
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: VA, Germany, Afghanistan
Posts: 2,967
Total Cats: 3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayc72 View Post
Riddle me this. How could a bad injector o-ring flood the engine? Only a stuck open injector would be able to flood the engine, a bad o-ring would cause fuel to leak out the fuel rail once the fuel pump is on.
Truth....with my old 1.6, i got my 1.8's in the mail while i ws leaving the house one day..got about 20 minutes from the house and looked down i had 1/4 tank...not a big deal then I thought about it nd i had almost a full tank when i left the house because i filled up the night before. Two o-rings had gone bad on the 1.6 injectors and there was fuel COVERING the engine bay, talk about good timing for the 1.8's to come in the mail!! This story ended with an injector swap on the side of a back road.

I guess I was pretty lucky, could have been MUCH worse, I mean imagine if gas was 4 bucks a gallon instead of 2.XX then!
KPLAFIN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2008, 09:28 PM   #43
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (33)
 
RotorNutFD3S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Newnan, GA
Posts: 2,539
Total Cats: 29
Default

Truth be told, I'm almost certain my issue has nothing to do with the injectors or their installation...
RotorNutFD3S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2008, 11:35 PM   #44
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Outside of the Loop-ATL
Posts: 754
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RotorNutFD3S View Post
Truth be told, I'm almost certain my issue has nothing to do with the injectors or their installation...
truth be told I don't think so either.

I am still thinking something broke and is either catching at the bottom of Cyl 1 or 4 or something is getting caught on the crank.

It rotates perfectly smooth until you hit that "wall". I still wonder if something like an oil ring broke, or maybe a rod bolt did come lose. Like I said Saturday, drop the oil pan first and see if anything falls out. I have a feeling that as soon as the oil pan comes off the answer will be found.

BTW, it was no problem helping you out. I am just glad my girl or my roommate didn't have a problem hanging around the shop. Also I will get the photos cleaned up and send you a link to them.
wildfire0310 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2008, 02:43 AM   #45
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (33)
 
RotorNutFD3S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Newnan, GA
Posts: 2,539
Total Cats: 29
Default

TADA!!!!
Name:  DSC01719.jpg
Views: 1
Size:  84.0 KB
Congrats to you guys calling a bent rod. I really just did not want that to be the case. Fortunately, the crank is not scarred in the least. What was causing the stop was the crank contacting the bottom of the piston where the wrist pin goes through:
Name:  DSC01720.jpg
Views: 1
Size:  52.4 KB


Cylinder #1...

OK, so things I need to know to to get moving in the right direction here:

1. How can you test injectors to make sure they are not stuck open? I'm praying that the rod was already about to go, and just bit the dust when the car was being started. But with the evidence of fuel on the plug, I'm not so sure, but thinking that may have just been what made it in the cylinder from the start up sequence. And there was NO pooled fuel inside the cylinder to indicate hydrolock (if it hadn't evaporated off of the plug that soon, there'd be evidence in the cylinder), so it's confusing. I'm just hoping the injectors or their servicing did not cause this problem. So thus the test.

2. For the ATL guys, anyone know any reputable machining shops? Going to go ahead and install forged pistons and rods. Need to get the work done though. No serious power build, but figure that since the engine is apart, might as well toughen it up.

Overall not a good day.
RotorNutFD3S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2008, 02:47 AM   #46
Elite Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,997
Total Cats: 1
Default

That sucks ******* dick. Glad the mystery is over though.
johndoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2008, 05:33 AM   #47
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: VA, Germany, Afghanistan
Posts: 2,967
Total Cats: 3
Default

Makes it even worse that you just sold a set of rods....good luck with the rebuild. Must be one beast of starter....EBay that bitch with the story, you might makae some money
KPLAFIN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2008, 07:27 AM   #48
Elite Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Severn, MD
Posts: 1,927
Total Cats: 5
Default

Miata injectors are open on ground. So if you installed the injectors and pinched a wire under the bolt by the rail, the injectors would stay open as you cranked it over. Check your injector wiring and make sure none of them got caught under the bolt that holds the injector harness to the head. There is a bracket in that area that you usually loosen to remove the injector clips.

I don't know this because I'm a brilliant ************. I know this because I hydrolocked a motor in my '90 when I reinstalled it.

Frank
fmowry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2008, 11:26 AM   #49
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (33)
 
RotorNutFD3S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Newnan, GA
Posts: 2,539
Total Cats: 29
Default

KPLAFIN - Why would I want to even think about selling the starter? It's a keeper!!!

fmowry - No good, but I guess you have to learn some things from experience.
However, I did check the wiring post-install just to make sure nothing was caught, kinked, or otherwise. I checked, double-checked, and triple-checked everything I touched or moved. (And my roommate was getting impatient and calling me OCD about it. lol)
RotorNutFD3S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2008, 12:22 PM   #50
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Outside of the Loop-ATL
Posts: 754
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RotorNutFD3S View Post
KPLAFIN - Why would I want to even think about selling the starter? It's a keeper!!!

fmowry - No good, but I guess you have to learn some things from experience.
However, I did check the wiring post-install just to make sure nothing was caught, kinked, or otherwise. I checked, double-checked, and triple-checked everything I touched or moved. (And my roommate was getting impatient and calling me OCD about it. lol)
You are OCD about it, but I also didn't see any damaged area to the injector wiring, and when you where trying to remove the wiring harness for the injectors they each seem to be moving freely. I would just double check the wires but I am sure they were clear.

Again man it sucks what happen, but it was still fun to pulling your motor out.

Oh you need to post the photos of the best way to install the Bell Downpipe
wildfire0310 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2008, 12:31 PM   #51
Ben
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (33)
 
Ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: atlanta-ish
Posts: 12,689
Total Cats: 99
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RotorNutFD3S View Post
2. For the ATL guys, anyone know any reputable machining shops? Going to go ahead and install forged pistons and rods. Need to get the work done though. No serious power build, but figure that since the engine is apart, might as well toughen it up.
Are you doing your own tear down and build up, or do you need a shop to do it all? Will's Machine Shop does good work if you just need the machine work. If you need disassembly and reassembly, (I'm probably biased here) I'd recommend my dad's shop in lawrenceville. He usually builds high power n/a 8 cylinders, but I'll have him cut you a deal if you want.

Ben
Ben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2008, 12:34 PM   #52
Elite Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Canton, Ga
Posts: 1,707
Total Cats: 19
Default

Rotornut check out these guys

http://www.chastainraceengines.com

They built my engine and did a great job. They Quoted me $1500 but I ended up spending a little over $1k. I brought them the engine disassembled, along with all my own parts, the block was cleaned, bored, and decked, the head was rebuild with multi angle valve job and oversized intake valves, decked head, fully balanced, etc. They also assembled the engine to the timing belt.


EDIT- looks like their website is down right now.
Stealth97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2008, 01:22 PM   #53
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (33)
 
RotorNutFD3S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Newnan, GA
Posts: 2,539
Total Cats: 29
Default

Thanks Ben and Justin!
To answer your question Ben, I want to do the work myself, but would need a shop to make sure that the cylinders are properly bored (probably going with either a .010 or .020 over piston) and that the crank is in good shape, balanced, etc., and that when everything goes together it all will fit properly. Realistically, I'd love a place where I can learn to do the building work with an experienced eye and hand ready to help out if needed. However, that may prove hard to find...
That being the case, I don't want to screw anything up, so maybe having someone experienced just do the work may be the easier route to go since I haven't built an engine alone before. But all the parts of course will be supplied.
And this may sound dumb, but I really think I'm going to end up leaving the head alone for now. I'm trying to forge the internals on a strict budget at the moment.

Last edited by RotorNutFD3S; 07-22-2008 at 02:32 PM.
RotorNutFD3S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2008, 06:16 PM   #54
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Savannah-ish GA
Posts: 57
Total Cats: 1
Default

wow that sucked. makes sense though, albiet an odd time to happen...
Archetype is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2008, 07:51 PM   #55
Elite Member
iTrader: (21)
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 5,689
Total Cats: 560
Default

Wow, never would have forseen that. But now you have the perfect excuse for that bottom end rebuild.
rleete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2008, 08:09 PM   #56
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (33)
 
RotorNutFD3S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Newnan, GA
Posts: 2,539
Total Cats: 29
Default

Yep! Except I'm not liking the price tag right now. lol

In any case, I'm strongly considering a MSM short block at the moment. I would prefer to get that in there just to get the car going for now, and build my current block on my time schedule and budget. And when I have the built block ready, I can toss over the nice support plate.
Rumor also has it that those engines have a dedicated spot to get coolant to the turbo and the pan is already tapped for oil return. I'm liking that. Just hoping that it will be a pretty uncomplicated swap into my car.
RotorNutFD3S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2008, 08:32 PM   #57
Ben
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (33)
 
Ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: atlanta-ish
Posts: 12,689
Total Cats: 99
Default

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showpost.p...69&postcount=7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith
The MSM engine is essentially a 2001-05 one with 9:1 compression, 1999-00 head and a 2001-05 intake manifold. Plus that turbo thing. I've heard all sorts of miraculous things attributed to the car and some are true (stronger halfshafts for 150 rwhp!) but I don't think the rods are different. There's nothing visibly different and I don't recall any claims of extra rod strength. There are some really interesting subtle differences such as a water pump inlet casting that gives a bit more room to package the turbo inlet.

The VTCS is just a pain in the butt. Remove the butterflies and the shaft, then fill in the holes between runners.

All the major parts are "clean and assemble", really. You can put the MBSP on any 1.8 block if you use a 2001-05 oil pan. The 1.8 heads will all swap from one block to another. The 1999-00 and 2001-05 intake manifolds interchange although you'll want to control the VICS and VTCS differently. Any 1.8 exhaust manifold will bolt to any 1.8 head, although the EGR plumbing can cause problems if you start mixing NA exhaust manifolds with NB intakes.
which makes me wonder how much more power could the MSM make with a 99-00 style intake manifold.
Ben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2008, 01:01 PM   #58
Ben
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (33)
 
Ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: atlanta-ish
Posts: 12,689
Total Cats: 99
Default

I just unwrapped and lifted a MSM block to study it. Pretty neat thing really. For coolant flow, they tapped a water jacket on one end, and it goes to a "Y" in the mixing manifold pipe on the other. Oil supply has a fitting just like the earlier cars. Oil return has a flanged fitting right below the turbo in the pan. The cold side of the pan has another flanged oil return fitting for the catch can. Good stuff.
Ben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2008, 01:49 PM   #59
Senior Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Fayetteville NC
Posts: 828
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rleete View Post
Judging from the "crack/pop sound" thing, I agree it's the starter or flywheel. You sheared a tooth, and it's jammed in there. Hope it's just the starter, as that should be easier to replace.

That or, you could have dropped something down in the head when changing the injectors. I did this once on my mustang. A (very) tiny screw fell down in the injector hole and logded between a valve. I didn't know at first. After I pulled the head I found the srew. I've also seen started break a tooth and lodge between the flywheel and cause a similar problem. I'd probably pull the injectors back out first to make sure something did not fall off it, like the pintle or plastic cap.
msydnor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2008, 08:19 PM   #60
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Outside of the Loop-ATL
Posts: 754
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by msydnor View Post
That or, you could have dropped something down in the head when changing the injectors. I did this once on my mustang. A (very) tiny screw fell down in the injector hole and logded between a valve. I didn't know at first. After I pulled the head I found the srew. I've also seen started break a tooth and lodge between the flywheel and cause a similar problem. I'd probably pull the injectors back out first to make sure something did not fall off it, like the pintle or plastic cap.
Dude you like 20 steps behind us, we had to pull his motor apart cause the head was fine, the tranny was fine, the flywheel was fine.

Look up a few post and you will see a lovely picture of his motor, with a nice bent rod. That was a bad sight to see at 9pm after busting are a$$es to get his motor out.
wildfire0310 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap Full_Tilt_Boogie Build Threads 59 12-15-2017 09:00 PM
OTS Bilstein to motorsports ASN conversion stoves Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain 5 04-21-2016 04:00 PM
My solution for Oiltemp and Oilpressure input into Megasuirt (MS3) Zaphod MEGAsquirt 41 01-24-2016 01:25 PM
Leaky Wilwoods mx592 Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain 1 10-01-2015 01:45 AM
Low oil pressure after 1.8 swap and new turbo setup JesseTheNoob DIY Turbo Discussion 15 09-30-2015 03:44 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:07 PM.