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Old 02-26-2014, 02:01 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jj1000 View Post
That's just one part of the NB top hat (it'd be nice if new ones were that cheap haha) so you'll need all the other parts as well to have one complete one.
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Old 02-26-2014, 02:08 PM   #22
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I would put 450/350 springs on as street car. Bilsteins are ok. I wouldn't say they were the best on street, but they did great on track. I think a lot of people suggest the MSM bilsteins here, which might have different charateristics than the HD/Sports.

Also, as a Bilstein sport user, I would only recommend NB sports if you run high spring rates and don't plan to use it with very grippy tires. The shock body is about an 1" longer than the NA bilstein shocks and your min ride height is going to be around 5.5"-6" at the pinch welds (I say min as in before you are basically riding on the bumpstops, you can go as low as 5" if you want). There is a thread around here where a graph of shock body lengths is posted. The biggest problem is actually in the front shocks with Sports. Just my 2c, try them if you want, but they are identical to the NA shocks in everything but size I think.

Lastly, Bilsteins will handle 500 lb/in springs comfortable. that's probably the max before being a bit oversprung in a street environment. at 550 lb/iin the Bilsteins are doning fine on track, but tended to get bouncy when there is a number of consecutive small bumps on the road.
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Old 02-26-2014, 02:16 PM   #23
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Something to think about . . .

By the time you've bought and tried several combinations to see what you like -- you may have spent about as much or more than just buying a tried and true tuned setup like FCM or XIDA. That's kind of where I came at it. Just wanted to spend/install once with rebuildable, quality hardware and be done with it.
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Old 02-26-2014, 03:27 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpod View Post
That's just one part of the NB top hat (it'd be nice if new ones were that cheap haha) so you'll need all the other parts as well to have one complete one.
Well damn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Track View Post
I would put 450/350 springs on as street car. Bilsteins are ok. I wouldn't say they were the best on street, but they did great on track. I think a lot of people suggest the MSM bilsteins here, which might have different charateristics than the HD/Sports.

Also, as a Bilstein sport user, I would only recommend NB sports if you run high spring rates and don't plan to use it with very grippy tires. The shock body is about an 1" longer than the NA bilstein shocks and your min ride height is going to be around 5.5"-6" at the pinch welds (I say min as in before you are basically riding on the bumpstops, you can go as low as 5" if you want). There is a thread around here where a graph of shock body lengths is posted. The biggest problem is actually in the front shocks with Sports. Just my 2c, try them if you want, but they are identical to the NA shocks in everything but size I think.

Lastly, Bilsteins will handle 500 lb/in springs comfortable. that's probably the max before being a bit oversprung in a street environment. at 550 lb/iin the Bilsteins are doning fine on track, but tended to get bouncy when there is a number of consecutive small bumps on the road.
Does that pinch weld height account for the NB top hats in the NA? I don't want to be slammed, but the ~12" ride height that I keep reading puts the pinch welds lower that that, right?

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Originally Posted by hornetball View Post
Something to think about . . .

By the time you've bought and tried several combinations to see what you like -- you may have spent about as much or more than just buying a tried and true tuned setup like FCM or XIDA. That's kind of where I came at it. Just wanted to spend/install once with rebuildable, quality hardware and be done with it.
I agree with you there. I just can't justify race coilover prices on a street car. My other vehicle is a lifted jeep, so the miata on it's stock suspension is already incredible to me. Imagine what I'd think of a $1k coilover.
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Old 02-26-2014, 04:26 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacob300zx View Post
anything from 250/150-450/350 with sway will feel sporty and fun.

I would buy these Bilstein Sports
99 1999 Mazda Miata Shock Absorber - Suspension - Bilstein, KYB, Front, Rear - PartsGeek
$424
450/325 springs with collars
Front Rear Aluminum Scaled coilover 0 3" Spring Kit 90 97 Miata MX 5 MX5 NA Blue | eBay
$60
Foam bump stops
Ground Control - Foam bump stop ($12.00ea)
$48
NB top hats
Flyin' Miata : Chassis : Suspension components : NB shock conversion kit
$209

Should be a nice setup for 750ish
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fireindc View Post
Good deal on the bilsteins, and IIRC you can have those rebuilt and revalved down the road and make them pretty uber.
This is pretty much exactly my setup. It is my summer Daily Driver, but I also autocross it.. I don't mind the ride at all, because every time I get overly jostled by a bump I just remind myself how quick I am on course. But then again, I'm in my mid 20s and pretty healthy. If I were older/out of shape I might hate it. Some of my friends who drive tauruses etc. can't believe how rough it is when they ride with me.
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Old 02-26-2014, 04:28 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jj1000 View Post
Well damn.



Does that pinch weld height account for the NB top hats in the NA? I don't want to be slammed, but the ~12" ride height that I keep reading puts the pinch welds lower that that, right?



I agree with you there. I just can't justify race coilover prices on a street car. My other vehicle is a lifted jeep, so the miata on it's stock suspension is already incredible to me. Imagine what I'd think of a $1k coilover.
Yes it includes NB tophats, not sure about on the NA. I am an NB, with NB tophats, on NB shocks. YMMV. greddygalant ran the same setup shocks as me on an NA, may want to message him on here or clubroadster. Do note though, his car is tracked also.
dunno. I generally measure at pinch welds. my purely guestimate is going to say no, because 12" sounds very close to the suggested Xida ride height which more like 4.25"-4.5" at the pinches.
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Old 02-26-2014, 07:19 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlev View Post
This is pretty much exactly my setup. It is my summer Daily Driver, but I also autocross it.. I don't mind the ride at all, because every time I get overly jostled by a bump I just remind myself how quick I am on course. But then again, I'm in my mid 20s and pretty healthy. If I were older/out of shape I might hate it. Some of my friends who drive tauruses etc. can't believe how rough it is when they ride with me.
I'm mid 20's as well, I don't even have a cushion in my seat to get my head safely below the roll bar. The ride can be rough at times, but the drive is worth it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Track View Post
Yes it includes NB tophats, not sure about on the NA. I am an NB, with NB tophats, on NB shocks. YMMV. greddygalant ran the same setup shocks as me on an NA, may want to message him on here or clubroadster. Do note though, his car is tracked also.
dunno. I generally measure at pinch welds. my purely guestimate is going to say no, because 12" sounds very close to the suggested Xida ride height which more like 4.25"-4.5" at the pinches.
Thanks, I'll message him.
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Old 02-26-2014, 08:15 PM   #28
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Honestly I'd just wait for the 949 Tecnas. I'd consider the 8/6 setup on the Standard Suspension R1 coilover setup I have to be still too stiff for comfort on the street, but on the other hand I'm in the midwest and there's potholes and divots everywhere. The moment the Tecnas come out I'm selling my current setup and swapping out.
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Old 02-26-2014, 11:12 PM   #29
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Spring rates will be a personal preference. Here is my setup and it's pretty comfortable on the street IMO.

Bilstein NA HD Shocks
Ebay Sleeves
Eibach 370/250 springs
Fatcat NB Top Mounts and bumpstops

For a full street car I would also consider a drop spring and shock setup. No idea where to start on that for a Miata but most coilovers are pretty aggressive for a purely street car.
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Old 02-27-2014, 07:11 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpod View Post
Ok, I'll chip in here. I have a 93LE with factory 20 year old suspension (bilsteins, etc..) and a friend with a BRG and 4 month old street advances (7/6kg). The teins do obviously feel "newer" and do absorb shocks and abrupt street bumps a little better. However, I've been told by another friend who has driven both mine and his car back to back and agrees with me that the bilsteins do feel "sportier" around turns and aggressive driving.

I'm not saying either is better, and our cars are setup differently, but in my case and with my experiences I would (and will be) just rebuilding my bilsteins over buying new coilovers.
A 93LE is the first R-package car, they ride rough as ****. They have a lot of low speed rebound and almost no low speed compression. Chinese translation, it kicks like a mule when it hits big dips. Damn that thing killed my spine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlev View Post
This is pretty much exactly my setup. It is my summer Daily Driver, but I also autocross it.. I don't mind the ride at all, because every time I get overly jostled by a bump I just remind myself how quick I am on course. But then again, I'm in my mid 20s and pretty healthy. If I were older/out of shape I might hate it. Some of my friends who drive tauruses etc. can't believe how rough it is when they ride with me.
Maybe I mis spoke on the sports I'm showing the NA HD to have extended compressed lengths of front 17.93/13.15 and the rear to have 14.49/9.69 the NB Sports have front 17.03/13.83 rear 14.05/10.01. So change those sports to the NA HD's on the same site. If your car above ^^ is riding like **** then your on the stops, trim them in half.

And here is where the rates were listed.

https://www.miataturbo.net/suspensio...springs-71025/
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Old 02-27-2014, 08:14 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacob300zx View Post
A 93LE is the first R-package car, they ride rough as ****. They have a lot of low speed rebound and almost no low speed compression. Chinese translation, it kicks like a mule when it hits big dips. Damn that thing killed my spine.



Maybe I mis spoke on the sports I'm showing the NA HD to have extended compressed lengths of front 17.93/13.15 and the rear to have 14.49/9.69 the NB Sports have front 17.03/13.83 rear 14.05/10.01. So change those sports to the NA HD's on the same site. If your car above ^^ is riding like **** then your on the stops, trim them in half.

And here is where the rates were listed.

https://www.miataturbo.net/suspensio...springs-71025/
Cool, that's the thread I found searching, didn't know if it was the one to follow.

So I'm torn, the tecnas sound great, I'm sure I'd be amazed. The teins sound good, I'm sure I'd still be amazed, but I'd probably over do it and have a car that rides rough on the highway, and handles twisty roads great. Blisteins with coilover sleeves sound like I can have them revalved to be perfect. So I'm shopping for blisteins at the moment.

I'm thinking I might try to get some junkyard blisteins and have them revalved. Might be a wash price wise, but the performance would be better suited to my driving. Also thinking about salvaging the NB top hats and putting new rubber bushings in the.

edit: then i search deeper into the rabbit hole and see that the stock valving handles upwards of 400lb springs just fine. I need to quit thinking and start ordering ****.

Last edited by jj1000; 02-27-2014 at 08:34 PM.
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Old 02-27-2014, 09:02 PM   #32
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Yeah, no reason to revalve Bilsteins unless you're going above 500 lb/in springs.
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Old 02-27-2014, 09:14 PM   #33
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I didn't want to blow your mind since your a newb but you seem to have a handle on things.

Boots
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/exp-12127/overview/

Shorten these and use the cutoffs as bushings for the upper mount ala Fatcatmotorsports
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/is...9-50/overview/

Torrington Bearings ala 949racing Xida
2-1/2 Spring pre-load bearing kit [Kit tbr 2.5] - $24.50 : Performance Shock, Inc

Cheap 99 hats
miata strut mount | Partsgeek.com
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Old 02-27-2014, 10:23 PM   #34
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^ somebody give this guy some props. He's working hard.
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Old 02-28-2014, 12:06 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by jacob300zx View Post
I didn't want to blow your mind since your a newb but you seem to have a handle on things.

Boots
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/exp-12127/overview/

Shorten these and use the cutoffs as bushings for the upper mount ala Fatcatmotorsports
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/is...9-50/overview/

Torrington Bearings ala 949racing Xida
2-1/2 Spring pre-load bearing kit [Kit tbr 2.5] - $24.50 : Performance Shock, Inc

Cheap 99 hats
miata strut mount | Partsgeek.com
awesome. I'll have study all that once I get off my phone.

I am a newb to miata performance, but I'm trying to carry my knowledge from offroad suspensions over to on road performance.

I put over 20k miles on the miata in the past 7 months so I know what I don't like on it, now im trying to find out how best to fix those issues.
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Old 02-28-2014, 06:08 AM   #36
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Jj, we went from Koni race/sport to custom valved bilsteins. Not only does the car perform better but it also rides better than stock. The shocks have great control of the spring rates. You will find that adequate travel on the rear shocks is where the ride compliance comes from. Spring rate essentially doesn't matter as long as the shock has the ability to dampen it. We have been as high as 900/600 rates on the bilsteins and the konis were ok on the course but not nearly as good.

We are somewhat local to you too.
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Old 02-28-2014, 10:51 AM   #37
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Frank we need to get together. I'd really like to see that custom setup you have. You free at all this weekend?
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Old 02-28-2014, 12:44 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacob300zx View Post
I didn't want to blow your mind since your a newb but you seem to have a handle on things.

Boots
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/exp-12127/overview/

Shorten these and use the cutoffs as bushings for the upper mount ala Fatcatmotorsports
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/is...9-50/overview/

Torrington Bearings ala 949racing Xida
2-1/2 Spring pre-load bearing kit [Kit tbr 2.5] - $24.50 : Performance Shock, Inc

Cheap 99 hats
miata strut mount | Partsgeek.com

Ok, I got to look through those links. I like the way you think.


y'all are both pretty close. I could take a sunday off if y'all ever want to meet up.
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Old 02-28-2014, 01:27 PM   #39
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Take Sunday off.

Drive to Tulsa Sat night.

Go to Hallett on a Sunday for an HST.
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Old 02-28-2014, 01:28 PM   #40
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Folks at Hallett are a class act and deserve our support.
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