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Old 03-01-2009, 12:34 PM   #1
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Default Rate my cam timing

Sorry for the noob questions, but I've searched and am still confused.

I've got the engine out to prep it for boost, and it looks to me like the exhaust cam timing is off. I carefully lined everything up using a ratchet on the crank, and wrench on the exhaust gear, there is no slack anywhere. There are 19 teeth between the gear marks, but the exhaust cam is 2 teeth off in relation to the cover mark.

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C
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Old 03-01-2009, 01:23 PM   #2
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exh cam needs to rotate clockwise 1 tooth
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Old 03-01-2009, 01:27 PM   #3
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When I did this, the teeth appeared to be at most 1/2 a tooth off for both cams in regards to the cover marks. I'd guess you'll have to shift the exhaust cam one tooth over.
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Old 03-01-2009, 01:34 PM   #4
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Yea, looks about 1 tooth off.
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Old 03-01-2009, 02:53 PM   #5
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Which mark is TDC? I'm in the garage, so can't search much, but neither the FSM nor Kieth Tanner's book mentions 2 marks. This is on a 95 R Package.
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After pulling the timing belt covers, it looks like the mark on the left is tdc.

Thanks,
Chris
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Old 03-01-2009, 04:04 PM   #6
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the marks are 10BTDC (white) and TDC (yellow). you can confirm position by putting your dipstick down plug hole cyl 1.

sounds like you may be out of mechanical time in more than one area.

did you install a timing belt on this motor?
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Old 03-01-2009, 04:17 PM   #7
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The previous owner had the belt replaced by a mechanic. The original white and yellow marks are long gone. Which is which? Is 0* the one on the right or left?

EDIT - Re-reading what you wrote - the right mark is 10*btdc, the left one is 0*. Correct? When the left mark is lined up with the T mark on the cover, the notch in the crank pulley is in line with the triangle on the block.

Thanks,
Chris
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Old 03-01-2009, 04:38 PM   #8
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Left and right is relative to perspective, but the marks on the crank pulley and block sound backwards to what I would have expected.

Put the dipstick down cyl 1. It's sure fire.
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Old 03-01-2009, 07:06 PM   #9
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Wouldnt both gears need to go one tooth clockwise to keep 19 teeth though??? One tooth on the exhaust cam would make 20 teeth... wouldnt it?
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Old 03-01-2009, 07:11 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NA6C-Guy View Post
Wouldnt both gears need to go one tooth clockwise to keep 19 teeth though??? One tooth on the exhaust cam would make 20 teeth... wouldnt it?
Think about that question for a minute.
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Old 03-01-2009, 07:14 PM   #11
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Im thinking... Cam gear 1 tooth makes 20 teeth between gear marks. Its also hard to tell whats going on down south with the pulley on. Im not really understanding the question. Align the crank mark, and then align the cam gear marks with the back timing cover...
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Old 03-01-2009, 07:48 PM   #12
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Maybe I'm wrong but it looks to me like the marks are wrong. Off by 1, you can clearly see it by glancing at the I & E marks.

Here's a correct TDC picture for reference



I used the m.net timing belt garage write up years ago when I did mine. I had no issues, well other than making a good sized scratch in the crankshaft nose. That was fun to fix.

Timing Belt Change
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Old 03-01-2009, 07:53 PM   #13
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Assuming the lower crank pulley has not worn like the 1.6 engines, the bottom marks are on the money.

Like Ben said...the only mark that needs repositioning is the exhaust cam mark.
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Old 03-01-2009, 08:04 PM   #14
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But again I state, isnt the correct cam timing 19 teeth between marks? Moving the exhaust 1 tooth would make it 20 (unless Im blind tonight). Im Curious to see the actual crankshaft mark. Though unless the keyway is messed up, that should be correct. The camera angle is also a little high to get a straight on look. Im going to guess the intake cam needs to go a tad more clockwise to be dead on, and to do that, move the intake tooth clockwise, and exhaust 1 tooth clockwise, then turn the entire belt (or crank) just a hair counter clockwise. Looks to me like the timing mark on the crank pulley is a few degrees clockwise of TDC. Perhaps I've had one too many drinks today though.
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Old 03-01-2009, 08:06 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NA6C-Guy View Post
But again I state, isnt the correct cam timing 19 teeth between marks? Moving the exhaust 1 tooth would make it 20 (unless Im blind tonight). Im Curious to see the actual crankshaft mark. Though unless the keyway is messed up, that should be correct. The camera angle is also a little high to get a straight on look. Im going to guess the intake cam needs to go a tad more clockwise to be dead on, and to do that, move the intake tooth clockwise, and exhaust 1 tooth clockwise, then turn the entire belt (or crank) just a hair counter clockwise. Looks to me like the timing mark on the crank pulley is a few degrees clockwise of TDC.

LOL, just stop man, or I'll be forced to have hustler make fun of your masculinity and sexual preference.
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Old 03-01-2009, 08:11 PM   #16
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Oh noes. Well then someone correct me as to why I am wrong, Im not getting it. If I like pink Smart cars and **** its my own preference.....

wait, wait, wait... thats all wrong...

Im wrong on the crank timing mark, I was looking at 10...

But seriously though, unless going for other than stock timing, shouldnt there be a 19 tooth count? Or is I be wrongz
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Old 03-01-2009, 08:49 PM   #17
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After removing the lower front cover, it all became clear to me. I backed the tensioner off, removed the belt, and got it all lined up per the FSM. And about the camera angle, oh hell yeah, it makes a big difference when looking at the cam gears and their relation to the marks on the cover. It took me a few tries to get this pic.

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Thanks for everyone's input.

C
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Old 03-01-2009, 08:51 PM   #18
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Wait, so what did you end up doing? Im curious now. Glad to see you got it right. Glad I could help, sorry everyone else was slack ***.....
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Old 03-01-2009, 09:12 PM   #19
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I took it all apart, because I was changing the cam gear seals, so I can't say exactly what was moved, sorry.

Removing the lower cover and looking at the notch in the crank gear verified to me that the second pulley mark (the one on the left) was 0*. I double checked it with the screwdriver in #1 trick. So the pics in my first post were actually at -10*.

I've got an order in to Rosenthal for a front main seal, so I get to do this all again. That's fine, I fiddled around with it allot today, and have a clear understanding of how to do it now.

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Old 03-01-2009, 09:16 PM   #20
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I've done the timing belt on my NB like 6 times. I can do it start to finish in 40 minutes, less if I didn't have to unbolt the swaybar so I could get clearance to remove my trigger wheel setup.

Anyways, it's not hard to get right the first time. What I do is just pull the valve cover, put a crescent wrench on each cam and then move the two crescent wrenches to get the cams indexed correctly, then C-clamp them to each other. Now they're both right and neither can move. Then just slip the belt on and you're done...
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