Rebuild Bp or go FE3? - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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View Poll Results: Which motor to go with now for 350-400whp
Rebuild bp with built bottom end and 99 head 18 31.58%
Stock FE3.. 39 68.42%
Voters: 57. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-19-2010, 06:25 PM   #1
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Default Rebuild Bp or go FE3?

I've hit a cross road.

I'm sitting here with a bp torn apart and looking at some machining, new bearings, assembly ect ect ect thinking; this is ******* gay.

Then I start thinking about swaps, the FE3. I can probably pick up a motor for the price of selling my wiseco's and rods and 99 head. Then I just need to fab up some motor mounts, intake and exhaust manifolds (was going to get new ones for the bp anyway), find a b-series bellhousing and bolt up the 6 six speed.

Or should I just rebuild the bp, I'm going to try and make close to 400whp on my next set-up and I can probably do it on the stock FE bottom end.

Decisions, decisions..


What do you guys think?
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Old 02-19-2010, 06:41 PM   #2
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Default thoughts, here's some:

You'll have to do an adapter plate with a TII trans. That six speed is not bellhousing friendly. I think it really comes down to how you'll use the car. Fe3 is a lot taller, so that's more weight, up higher- bad for handling. Yes 400whp has been done on stock FE3s BUT none of them AFAIK have been tracked for 20 minute sessions. They're all street/drag cars. That said, guys are picking up Kia variants for as little as $200. Not too dissimilar to your Miata 5 speed scenario: so cheap you just keep spares on hand.

Either engine is going to require a custom intake manifold to get that kind of power. You can use a BP turbo manifold on the FE- though not ideal, the ports are that close to the BP. The build BP is more of known entity at that power level on the track (as in road course), but even then it's not indestructible.

I think ultimately you're faced with spending more money and less time on the BP, but in the end it should be (on paper) the better package for tracking and potential. I did the FE3 because it was an inexpensive route to more power.
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Old 02-19-2010, 08:39 PM   #3
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Considering the support and knowledge freely available here and on other sites I would stick with the BP.
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Old 02-19-2010, 08:47 PM   #4
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I would like to see a FE3, but sounds like a ******* mission. Also knowing now that the engine seats higher that a BP was a turn-off, but is also open to what you want out of the car.
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Old 02-19-2010, 08:48 PM   #5
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built FE3?
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Old 02-19-2010, 08:49 PM   #6
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I still regret not taking the FE3 plunge last month when I was at the crossroads.

I've done a LOT of research into it, and it makes way too much sense. Way to easy to do.

The 2 hard parts that made me shy away were:

1. Trans adapter plate
2. Custom Aluminum welded intake manifold


And the second one of those I'm doing anyways for the B6 now.

Plus you can do it incrementally. Get the motor in, and manifold made. Mate 5 speed with B2000 bellhousing (cheap) and run n/a while you work on a turbo setup and your TII tranny. The Kia exhaust manifold is a nice piece and points the right direction for a temporary n/a exhaust.

Just do it.
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Old 02-19-2010, 09:24 PM   #7
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...Option 3 20b rotary?

It wouldn't need an adapter plate for the TII trans and would make all the power you could handle.

In forza 3 (I know not real) my 900+hp 20b NA will easily go 340kph and turn at that speed!
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Old 02-19-2010, 10:04 PM   #8
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I would go FE3 myself...
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Old 02-19-2010, 10:59 PM   #9
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FE ftmfw
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Old 02-19-2010, 11:18 PM   #10
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I did the youtube thing earlier. whoo whoo. Do the swap and document it on here.
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Old 02-19-2010, 11:34 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cspence View Post
I would go FE3 myself...
Realistically, that would be my choice too.

They have big bearings, stronger rods and an easy stroker in using a b2200/80's mx6 crank from what I hear
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Old 02-20-2010, 12:19 AM   #12
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I'm willing to bet the slightly higher placement won't affect handling as much as most would think, I never seem to get enough track time as I'd like anyway with this car, that's why I have a spare chassis(n/a track car build)

I just need to look at the tranny issue, I don't want a T2 trans, why can't I use a six speed and an adapter plate?
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Old 02-20-2010, 12:35 AM   #13
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Do the FE ,and do a build thread here.
(G)
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Old 02-20-2010, 12:43 AM   #14
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I don't think its worth it, unless you put in the 2.2L crank to stroke it out.
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Old 02-20-2010, 08:52 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neogenesis2004 View Post
I don't think its worth it, unless you put in the 2.2L crank to stroke it out.
I think it is worth it....just for the higher stock power capacity.

You can use a junkyard motor that will handle the same amount of power as a well-built BP...STOCK. Bigger bearings ftw. The head also appears to be a better design, or at least equal in flow with a valvetrain known for taking abuse well beyond redline.

I priced out FE3s locally, and easily found a handful in the $500-700 range, and I think the $700 one was for the guy that also had the B2000 tranny that he was throwing in. If I could make 300-400whp on a motor that I could pick up spares for that cheap all day I'd do it. Like I said I'm an idiot for deciding to build my 1.6L instead.

Larger displacement is also nice. Guys spend $4K trying to get BPs up to 2.0L...why? Think it's not worth it. That displacement there is free.

Tranny and high flow intake manifolds would be the same problems and cost as any 400whp BP. How many guys pushing that have custom manis and TII or equivalent trans?

That means the only real issue is mounting the motor, which is literally two steel plates with 6 holes in them. Too easy.

Oh, and the CAS...but I'd consider a crank trigger wheel at those power levels anyway.




Replacement parts are plentiful, and cheap.


Now that I'm building a motor I hate myself. I'm going to be so scared of blowing it up it's not funny. No worries on the stock 1.6L since I can find those next to free all day long....but I will seriously cry if I kill my built motor, and I know you did too.


Think how nice it would have been to just go pick up another $500 Kia motor instead of that heartwrenching partout....
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Old 02-20-2010, 09:03 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dc2696 View Post
I don't want a T2 trans, why can't I use a six speed and an adapter plate?
I wonder what the actual strength difference is if any? Anyone know what that 800+hp guy from Greece or eliminator77 of m.net run tranny wise? I'm sure they've btdt.

I know from my b2200 days that people dropped kia fe3's in their trucks and had mild boost running through the stock trans (same as a miata trans for those who don't know) reliably. They also had the mentality, it's $150 for a new one if I break it, so most didn't bother with a stronger trans.
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Old 02-20-2010, 01:27 PM   #17
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Damn those FE3s look badass. WTF am I doing building a 1.6?
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Old 02-20-2010, 01:38 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turotufas View Post
I did the youtube thing earlier. whoo whoo. Do the swap and document it on here.
Solomiata : Interchange : FE3 motor
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Old 02-20-2010, 02:00 PM   #19
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damn. the F3 came in the kia sportage then? going to def look into one of those. the custom intake is understandable from its FWD origin but for the exhuast i heard some people can make a bp 1.8 manifold fit? what is required? sorry for the thread jack.

as for the OP. the mental ease of knowing you can easily aquire a spare motor quickly and swap everything over in a weekends worth must feel great. but a built motor is just that...built...if you take your time and revise everything a built motor will always be better than an completely stock old motor...personally i would much rather spend money and have one motor run 20k miles than swap out a motor ever 5k miles. working on cars is fun but annoying when it gets repetative IMO.
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Old 02-20-2010, 02:12 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neogenesis2004 View Post
I don't think its worth it, unless you put in the 2.2L crank to stroke it out.
Its looking to be cheaper to install then rebuilding my bp so I think its certainly worth the money.

If I can sell my rods and pistons I can pay for the motor...
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