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Old 12-12-2006, 01:33 PM   #21
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I dont think the RA-1's are full out tires. I would class them a little more than Azenis unless they are shaven.

V700's are sticker than street tires but are not in the same class as V710's or A6's. I wouldnt use them for a track either, I think the heat would kill the 710
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Old 12-12-2006, 01:37 PM   #22
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what are you talking about the RA-1s are full out competition tire. The 615s are a street class tire.

Ask any driving instructor and they'll tell you the same, learn how to drive fast on street tires. Driving on Rs your first time will do nothing; you won't hear them, you won't push them to the limits (cause you can't drive yet), there's no need to drive 10/10 when you are learning, they give way without warning, they are expensive to learn on. Your first time on the track there are so many more important things to worry about than tires. Remember you are out there to learn, not to compete.

It's exactly why I have a set of vitoracers sitting in my basement that I never bothered to mount for the last HPDEs I ran.
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Old 12-12-2006, 01:44 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by braineack View Post
what are you talking about the RA-1s are full out competition tire. The 615s are a street class tire.

Ask any driving instructor and they'll tell you the same, learn how to drive fast on street tires. Driving on Rs your first time will do nothing; you won't hear them, you won't push them to the limits (cause you can't drive yet), there's no need to drive 10/10 when you are learning, they give way without warning, they are expensive to learn on. Your first time on the track there are so many more important things to worry about than tires. Remember you are out there to learn, not to compete.
when the are shaven I would agree with you, but at full tread Many use them as rain tires.
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Old 12-12-2006, 01:46 PM   #24
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it still has a lot to do with the composition of the rubber. Lots of racers take full on hoosier slicks and use a special heated tool to cut out tread for rain tires.
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Old 12-12-2006, 01:47 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitlab77 View Post
when the are shaven I would agree with you, but at full tread Many use them as rain tires.
They are still a competition race tire.

I have a set of hoosier r3s04s waiting in the basement until I kill my Azenis and learn the miata.
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Old 12-12-2006, 01:54 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by olderguy View Post
What is on the car now? First time at the track might be better with what you are used to.
Falkens 452s. I'm not going to tear them up on the track. Besides, they're 17" and I want to run 15's for the track.
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Old 12-12-2006, 01:55 PM   #27
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www.vulcantire.com
has great prices on azenis
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Old 12-12-2006, 01:55 PM   #28
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I agree with running a street tire...its cheaper, its safer if your not sure how they will react.

I'm with running the azenis or the hankook Rs-2s, the kooks handle heat a little better, but have slightly less grip, I love my RS-2s...however, next set will be azenis so I can compare them.
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Old 12-12-2006, 01:59 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Splitime View Post
People shouldn't move to R compounds until they have numerous track events under their belt. It destroys the learning curve. Hides mistakes and causes more drastic ones.

Just my opinion and those of alot of other track people I play with.
How about RA-1 not shaved? I just don't like the word "greasy". I don't think I would like that feeling while I'm out there for the first time.
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Old 12-12-2006, 02:01 PM   #30
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do you autoX? I guess is the key question. And if you autoX what tires do you use?
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Old 12-12-2006, 02:02 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Virus View Post
How about RA-1 not shaved? I just don't like the word "greasy". I don't think I would like that feeling while I'm out there for the first time.
RA-1 not shaved grabs like an R compound and has tread squirm. I disliked them at full tread.

I'd very much suggest the Azenis, the miata is a lighter car and shouldn't grease the 615s up nearly as fast as some other people/cars do. They squeal/scream at the limits and let you know whats going on. When they start to get "greasy" (ie: after pushing the car quite hard) you'll be able to just slow down a bit and they can cool fairly quickly.
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Old 12-12-2006, 02:11 PM   #32
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Street tires are false economy. A harder tire SHOULD last longer right? Not necessarily. Depends on the heat range the tire is supposed to operate. An RA-1 is designed to operate at high heat, an Azenis aren't. Doing a lapping day or HPDE is going to put stress on the tires from heat, the RA-1 will deal the Azenis won't as well.

Street tires are meant for just that, the street. When you pull out onto the track you should be running proper SAFE tires. Another "good" tire if you can find them are Yoko A032 in the hard compound.

I firmly beleive that you should learn on what you intend to drive.

Jay
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Old 12-12-2006, 02:15 PM   #33
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I will pray to Buddha for enlightenment. j/k
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Old 12-12-2006, 02:17 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayc72 View Post
I firmly beleive that you should learn on what you intend to drive.

Jay
I can respect that to an extent. But it is like giving a knife to a baby and saying it should learn with it since it'll be using it eventually.

Stepping up will help him learn and become a better driver.

Just like starting with a slow car will develop a better driver than handing them the keys to a Z06 their first day.
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Old 12-12-2006, 02:17 PM   #35
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If I relied on noise to tell me I was approaching the limit of the tires I wouldn't go past 2/10th. R compounds make noise too. The more advanced rubber compounds used in autocross aren't very forgiving, however the RA-1 is NOT an autocross tire. It's a track tire.

Generally shaving the tire is about longevity as opposed to all out grip. Tread squirm creates heat, at a certain point the heat will cause the tire to start coming apart. A full tread Ecsta V70A will be in pretty sad shape after a lapping day, an RA-1 or a Victoracer will fair much better. An Azenis, MX or RS2, depends how hot things get I suppose.
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Old 12-12-2006, 02:22 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splitime View Post
I can respect that to an extent. But it is like giving a knife to a baby and saying it should learn with it since it'll be using it eventually.

Stepping up will help him learn and become a better driver.

Just like starting with a slow car will develop a better driver than handing them the keys to a Z06 their first day.
Apples and Oranges. The baby and knife senerio was cute though.

Learning how to brake and drive the line will make a person a better driver. Learning those skills on the equipment you intend to use only makes sense. I said it once, I'll say it again. You shouldn't be pushing the limits of the car or the tires when you are learning. So does it matter if you are in a Z06 or a Miata? No. Is there value in learning the feel of the tires and the car when you are learning? Yup.
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Old 12-12-2006, 02:23 PM   #37
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oh he asked about shaving.

Full tread tires have casting model crap on the outside (think of it as a lube to make them easier to pop out of the mold). You shave them to get rid of that as well as to take away some of the tread as it will chunck and tear if you do not.

I should not be typing so much at work.
miata.net and the tire and tracksection would help too.

yeah i'm linking them lol
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