idk if i've mentioned it but i want one. just not at 750$ lol

Yah, that's a big pill to swallow on a Miata. The wing on the Miata cost me about $75 off ebay, picked it up locally. Fits into the OGK's theme perfectly.

I'll be stocking the GT200 Miata wing because it's the best Miata wing you can buy, not the cheapest. The stuff from Japan for the Miata is all close but not quite unless you make your own stanchions and mounts.

Special order, or does someone sell it... :eek5:

Emilio- don't you think adding a splitter to the ISC front spoiler would give you the downforce you need/want on the front end? That spoiler was built to meet the limits of the SCCA's ITA class - thus no splitter and no extension beyond the foremost tip of the bumper.

This thread has me looking very hard on craigslists in my area for a spare trunk lid and a ricer selling quality wing cheap. Looking for what directions people go to balance the fronts though. DD car I'm limited on what I can do that can't be undone easily at the end of a track day.

How's this cf wing look for $100? Unknown make.

http://images.craigslist.org/3o23p53...da625812f5.jpg

Since it's unknown it may be ricer crap and add signifigant drag, but it's impossible to tell. Looks like a good $100 gamble, I'd try it.

Yup. Thought I'd try it sans extension first. Not enough downforce.

The other issue is all the air hitting the front tires. That generates lift and a big chunk of drag. So the next round of mods to the OGK will hopefully include either some spats like William made to shield the tires or a dive plane like canard thingy.

It would also be more effective if the car were lower but I can't get any lower now without getting into ugly geometry issues. The new spindles and control arms will fix that but the protos are still a few weeks away.

Any thoughts on projects to make the car slipperier like undertrays, ducting, diffusers, vortex generators, etc. in combination with adding downforce?

There are some really good threads about this over on corner-carvers.com if you search a bit.

how much water do the ratings of "less than 120 mph" or "greater than 120 mph" hold on the APR website?

and I'm already tired of people bitching about their mustangs at corner-carvers

Corner-carvers . Thanks! I'm checking it out.

The GTC-300 is way too big for the Miata.

The speed ratings seem to break down by Carbon Fiber and Aluminum. The CF's rate 150-180, aluminum are all at 120. Note they don't say maximum speed but highest average speed. I'm wondering if aluminum might fit the avg speeds of Miata's on the track better.

It depends on what they are basing the speed rating off of, though. If it's drag produced, then you want the CF because our aero is shit as is and you want to add as little additional drag as possible when you do the wing.

OTOH, the aluminum is much cheaper, probably.

hm, 120 avg. would be pretty good for a miata. The GTII's look nice, and the aluminum one doesn't break the bank, I may be able to swing it, assuming it would help with time attack.

Sav. it appears that the aluminum and CF pieces are the same shape (more clearly the CF is all organic looking). The only thing then would be the surface smoothness, which I am sure you could polish the aluminum right?

Can you post pics? APR's site seems to be down.

I've never liked fitting or the look of that top but damn, that's hot.

Who makes that top? is it still in production? Thats the hotness right there! go nicely with my N2 flares in the future

Attachment 209070

Attachment 209071

the only difference appears to be where the braces attach to the body of the structure, could there still be a noticeable drag between the 2 materials?

erotomania that top was made by someone on m.net i believe, horrible fitment if I heard correctly, you don't want it (thats a doctored example)

Is the "Autokonexion" hardtop. Not sure if they are still for sale though.

BTW Autokonexion/slickauto mounted that wing to the rear quarter and were nice enough to show a few pics.

http://www.autokonexion.com/images/tabtuesday%20020.JPG
http://www.autokonexion.com/images/tabtuesday%20014.JPG

Also over at cr.net slickauto has the wing for sale w/ some better pictures.

I believe he did some trimming molding on the hatchback to get the lines better. The way it's shipped is very rough.

I've been looking at the GT-U wing for quite a while, wondering what it would do to put some big end plates on it.

I also wonder if the GT-U and the minidrag are the same airfoil with different risers, and possibly end plates.


With out CFD data or a more details about the airfoil specs, it's hard to guestimate what any of these would do even using javafoil.

Here's a start.

All us Cali based Miata crew talk about aero all the time. Its teh car's achilles heel when it comes to track stuff, not power, brakes, reliability, balance and certainly not mechanical grip. Aero. Lots of good ideas floating around. Jeff Lee of Slick may get his car doen before anyone else. Last time I talked to Matt Andrews I wasn't sure he was going to continue developing his car. If he does, he wants to put drag reduction near or at teh top of the list. I have all sort of grand plans I never have time to actually build :mad: Mostly it seems I end up giving other people ideas on how to build cars faster than mine :vash:

Looking around it seems harder to find cheap ricer wings.

Though I was able to find some.

Matrix Racing- Euro Altezza Tail Lights, Clear Projector Headlights, Auto Accessories, and Performance Parts for Cars & Trucks


Some even with a similar style.

Matrix Racing- Euro Altezza Tail Lights, Clear Projector Headlights, Auto Accessories, and Performance Parts for Cars & Trucks

Matrix 17-520 - Matrix Tech 9 Type-X Universal Wings - summitracing.com




Again, it's unknown how these perform, and for the price I'd imagine they create alot of drag. But you never know.

could the Veilside NA front bumper help reduce drag? Looks like it extends the nose a bit lower, but you would need an extraction hood with that sucker fish type mouth on it.

In my quest to determine the best strategy for altering the maita's aero I concluded that reducing drag was a nice by product if possible but the honest truth is that the necessary parts like a low front bumper with splitter and a rear wing add to the drag anyways. The most important factor to concentrate on for the car IMO is reducing lift.
This includes some things I've done and many more I have figured out and plan to do. An undertray is certainly one, as well as not just a low front chin to keep air out from under the car but also low sideskirts or the like to prevent the air that comes down the side of the car from wrapping underneath below the doors. Also, remove the rear bumper/cut it up to not be a sail - not only in the center but also the sides so that the air in the rear wheel wells can exit. Another important thing is to find a way to vent the air out of the front wheel wells - this is the thing I'm currently working on a solution for.

Ryan, you skipped the single most important aspect of drag reduction on the front of the car. If you can figure it out, I'll give you a cookie.

Ah.. the barn doors? I didn't think of it because I've not had the barn doors for 3 years now... yes, get rid of the barn doors, the lights, the motors etc. Save 20 lbs too.

Sans the rear bumper, everything I was talking about is more for reducing lift than drag.. it's difficult to really help the car's drag coefficient much because one can't ultimately change the overall frontal shape and outline of the car...

Barn doors are not up on the track.

Yes, But they're up for the down stroke.

Chopping the windshield and a-pillars? Lol oh well I so wanted that cookie..
-Ryan

oh wait he said "front"

ummmm

Not sure if you consider it the front, but side mirrors? I'll take chocolate chip please.

I know with the APR aluminum wings you can mount the stantions anywhere on the wing. They are just pop nut (riv nut) mounted to the wing surface. You can also order wings as blank kits and fabricate what you need out the parts.

Here is what Sbrian2 and I did for a friends SM2 RX7 using a blank wing kit from APR. Click Here. A lot more aggressive angle of attack on the second element then what is needed for a track car, but you get the concept.

Another important part of building a good underbody is panelling off the underside of the car, making it as smooth as possible but also you want to introduce a more drastic low to high pressure situation. You want the back end of the car to be pulling air from the front. If your underbody steadily grades upwards as it goes the length of the car, lowest point being the front splitter and highest point the end of the rear bumper, you pretty much are creating a vacuum under the car sucking it to the ground and increasing downforce all around.

You are so making cookies today so I can have some in between riding my Deer(e).

Attachment 209026

What you people really ought to be doing is widening your barn doors to use as makeshift air brakes :v

ding ding. The front tires on a 225mm-shod car are like 4" beyond the front bumper at the front, and like 80% of the surface area is a reverse wing that creates a shitload of lift and drag. Shroud the tires with ANYTHING and you will improve the drag big-time. Shroud the tires with a set of canards that produce downforce and you are a bad ass motherfucker.

That ISC dam looks from the pics like it does a good job of blocking air from the front wheels. Does it?

It would probably do perfectly on a normal SM 15x7 +30 setup. With a 15x9 +36, you've got another 20mm or so of wheel/tire further out, so it does OK but it can be improved upon.

while reading through that m.net thread I noticed they talked about the reverse mud-flaps on S2000's for diverting air from the tires. I have also noticed that the new Corolla's have these reverse mud flaps as well. I suppose a wide body kit could fix this. Or create a vertical piece on your splitter that went in front of the wheels, rising into the wheel wells.

Attachment 209015

here is my setup.

1st pic was ISC air dam with splitter.
umm, going off road a few times destroyed my ISC air dam, it is also impossible to roll on and off my trailer with it. so I gave up, and installed a Home Depot front spoiler and wheel spat that Savington is referring to in 2nd pic.

2nd also pic shows my side skirt. cost me $10 at Home Depot. hasn't need replacement yet for over an year.

3rd pic shows my rear diffuser, since have taken it off. too much hassle and it weighs about 20LB.

Bellwilliam,

Opinion on how well the DIY dam and skirts do at balancing out that wing?

Nope. My ISC on the OGK leaves a good 3~4" of tire hanging out in the wind. The plan is to add a plate splitter that's as wide as the tires and a dive plane to cover the tires. Like Savington said, two birds with one stone.

The ISC for the NB's leaves even more tire exposed.

I still get quite a bit of push. but Home Depot air dam and wheel spat are very strong (they survive quite a bit of off roading :giggle: ). where ISC air dam is probably for someone who never ever goes off.

I do want a splitter, but it really is a lots of hassle to install it. in my picture 1. it was easier for me to take off the whole bumper with splitter on. I will install my splitter again if I find a good aftermarket bumper or if I find an easy and strong way to mount it.

wheel spat is just 2 pcs of aluminum. about $15 at Home Depot and 3 bolts per side to mount it. took me about 10 minutes.

With that set up still pushing are you thinking about maybe a less effective wing for better balance or are you looking for more downforce / less lift in the front to offset it?

I can always run less rear wing still (going negative instead of zero angle). But I am hoping to get an easy to install splitter, to offset the rear wing. hoping for some easy idea. I've seen a Bomex front bumper, it has a small front lip built-in. that might work. and/or run dive plane like Emilio said.

How goofy is the idea of using the Miata factory style mud flaps mounted to the opposite sides so they are in front of the tires. The curve fits the front of the wheel well opening pretty closely. Tried and not wide enough?

thought of the same thing just a minute ago

Would probably work, but I doubt the fit would be exact, nor would there be holes to mount it, but I dont expect you thought that anyway. (or am I wrong?)

you are going to let a lack of mounting holes deter you from aerodynamic pleasure?

No, I wouldnt use the stock flaps anyway. If I were to do it, I would do something custom like the aluminum ones.

I just figured the stock mud flaps would be a jumping off part. The curve isn't that far off and it wouldn't be hard to fab tabs to bolt them up to. Also the curve of them is less of a sail than the flat plate. In looking to improve aero I'm figuring their smoother wedge shape might be better. I've got a couple used ones coming to work with already. Figured those and my ABS DIY splitter project could be done at the same time.

We'll see. Looking to improve aero/ reduce lift to make up for all the weight I've added to the car. I like the simple let off at 70-80mph timed deceleration idea for checking aero improvements.

Thinking of Smokey and the Bandit Trans Am fender skirts and a die grinder.
Make it fit.

I went searching for fender flares and splitters and found things. Unnatural things. Ugly things.

Is that a kitchen table?

I have never understood that style, i think the japanese are making fun of american ricers

thats bozoku racing style. they often put oil coolers on the front there too. its just one of their old fads.

You guys might think this is ghetto, but it's an idea I had for splitter attachment while walking through home depot one day. They have bigass rolls of braided steel cables that you can buy in whatever lengths you want. Depending what size you get, the ratings on it are easily strong enough for anything like this. Get some of that, attach it to the splitter with eye bolts or something like what's already installed on your metal splitter in the picture, and then have eye bolts on the chassis up inside the bumper so that you can just use carribeaners for quick disconnect. Mount it somewhere in the rear with a few bolts and it should be pretty easy ro remove by just jacking up the car. You'd have to make sure the cables were tight enough to keep the splitter snug up against the bumper and keep it from flapping up or down (which would probably screw up handling pretty bad) but if done right I think it'd be pretty easy to install/remove and it'd be cheap as hell.

Good idea.

Have we met? You should post in the Meet and Greet section and add your location to your details. We might be local to each other.

I have a home-depot lip in my garage...in for ideas on how I can make brake ducts, and center duct with my begi scoooper, and a splitter with it.

Attachment 208611

2.5" risers installed today. Haven't tried it out, but it should increase the downforce a tad by getting the wing up into cleaner air.