Reverse Rice-ology (SlickAuto.net APR GTC-200 inside)
 

Hustler, you need this. (excuse my shitty photos, I possess neither an SLR nor the skills to use one)

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APR GTC-200. I can feel a difference at 50mph. Instead of struggling to lay power down in 3rd exiting slow stuff, it just STICKS. I have to consciously try to power-over exiting corners or else it just pushes from the apex out. It's unreal. I need to build a big front splitter to balance it out, though.

The really nice part is that this is the first official Miata-specific version of this wing, instead of just their universal wing. The Miata-specific setup mounts at the very edge of the trunklid:

Attachment 209151

so you don't have to dick around with huge support braces or anything. The wing presses directly down onto the edge of the trunklid.

Big props to Jeff at SlickAuto.net for delivering it to Willow Springs this morning and for getting it together in time for the event. Even on total junk for rubber, I managed to eek out 2nd place out of 5 in the Unlimited class of the Miata Challenge event.

did you adjust it any to see if there's a huge difference in downforce between different settings?

pretty cool man, though lots of people will think you're the typical ricer and have it on there to look cool on the street lol

:giggle: Pretty cool. Even if it is a huge wing. Wouldnt have imagined that much of a difference in downforce. Maybe at 80+, but not at 50. As long as it helps times, thats all that matters. It even looks better than most monster wings Ive seen.

+1 to the above. I would feel bad if I had to drive it on the street. I know I laugh at people with wings. You going to take it off between events or use it all the time?

Is that a GTM next door...? :jerkit:

$?

hardtop needs more peanut butter

Nice! If its functional, then it isn't rice. Was the trunklid edge bent from the mounting and the drag?

Edit: That white Miata is clean!

Trunklid edge bent a little to contour to the mounts. My crap photo sort of makes it look worse than it is. I did adjust it to see what the difference was, but mostly to remove downforce since the car was pushing at anything over 70mph. It went from scary 4th gear oversteer to annoying understeer, if that's any indication of how much it did.

I am going to get a second trunklid for street use.

$725. Sounds like a lot, but it's carbon fiber and they post their CFD data. For a 200whp track-driven Miata, it's worth every penny. 5 cars in Unlimited class, the top 3 had this wing on.

Cool! Congrats on your finish! Anything that drops your times is worth it. Are you going to do a more aggressive alignment to compensate for the wing?

I'll have to see how the tire wear works out. I don't anticipate it being necessary.

I like it Sav, wings like that got a bad rap after all the F&F ricer crap that has been rolling around for the past couple of years, but they do have their place. Was it strange to feel the handling change as the downforce built up?

It is an odd feeling. There are a couple of places where I would slide the car a little on exit, and then even though I was still on power the rear end would just magically settle down all on its own. Very eerie.

Very nice

I read a while back about Jaguar adding a small spoiler lip to the rear of one of their cars to help "settle" the rear end at high speeds. It added a couple of hundred lbs. to the rear end at 120mph, but that leveraged the front of the car upward and caused air to get under it. Net result was a couple hundred lbs. of lift in the front at 120mph with terrible understeer. They had to make adjustments to the front to remedy the problem.

The law of unintended consequences?

I'm not a fan of street wings, but on a race car? Hell yeah. Get your grip.

that thing is so huge :)



^^

what is the front of the car doing with this week at say 30 and 80mph? I'm interested in one, but not sure about downforce in the front. I need to get a spare trunklid for "trackmode." Is there a cheaper option out there? I'm saving for a house right now, and trying not to spend any more cash on the miater.

Why not just bolt the wing to the hard top? This way it pushes down on the middle of the car and it balances out nicely.

ever think about some canards? :)

Thanks for posting up this feedback, Sav. I really need to test a wing. It's another part I have to add to the test list.

I can imagine how much more stable the car felt. I had the opportunity to crew for Matt Andrews a month ago. He was testing some tires at MSR and had to do it on an HPDE day. They put him in the advanced group and he was raping every car on track. Most of the cars on track were C5/C6 vettes, various porsches, various high hp mercedes, etc. His car just sticks!

Sav, Did you track the car on the Advan's or 6ul's?

I ran a big ricer wing for a test weekend (with alignment changes) when motorola cup was considering them as legal and it made a huge difference in entry and cornering speeds. We were gaining mph on straights preceded by high speed turns, but losing mph on straights preceded by slow turns at Rd Atlanta. Still showed quicker lap times with it. And we were quicker with it at Daytona. And it was awesome in a sprint I ran in the rain Rd Atl making a huge difference in traction under power on the rear.

And this was a ricer jdm wing too. The biggest problem with the cheap wings is the amount of drag they create due to the large radius on the trailing edge vs. a sharp edge.

The other issue was mounting it to the trunk. The wing compressed all the weather stripping and the sheet metal which changed it's approach angle to the oncoming air. The photo above is better mounting at the edges, but not ideal. It needs to be mounted solid - so thru the trunk and to the "frame rails" in some manner. Think prototype/formula where it's bolted to the gearbox.

At 30, it does nothing. Car acts as normal. At 80, it's a HUGE difference. There is one corner at Streets of Willow where my car would oversteer in 4th gear every lap. Adding the wing changed that oversteer into horrible understeer, to the point where all I did all day was reduce the wing angle to try and compensate.

Gompers, I have considered canards. They add a lot of drag for the downforce they produce, though. I am going to try an adjustable splitter, first 4" of lip, then 6" of lip, and see if I still want more.

Johnwag, I track on the 6ULs. I don't want to tear up the tires on the Advans.

I want to get a set of fresh NT-01s and a splitter and go back to try it. I ran 3 sessions and my best time all day was a 1:28.4, which I really wasn't happy with. I corded one of my RA-1s very badly, so I had to borrow two near-dead NT-01s from bellwilliam, who had taken them off because he had flatspotted them. In ONE lap, with two fresh tires on only the front, I dropped from that 1:28.4 to a 1:26.9. With 4 fresh tires and an undertray, I have no doubt my car could drop into the low 1:25 range, possibly 1:24s. The lap record right now for Miatas is 1:25.5, IIRC.

I like it. Before Rappadan traded his car, I was trying to get him to give me his trunk lid with a huge spoiler bolted to it, so i could use for trackdays, much like i'll use my extractor hood.

i like it too. if it was only cheaper i'd probably get it lol

why not mount it to the rear quarter panels just next to the trunk lid? wouldn't that be more solid than to the trunk lid itself? (someone said something about stability of the wing on the trunk lid)

Yes... as long as you don't need to get into the trunk it should be a hassle. ;)

I think it would ok as mounted in the photo above as long as the decklid was solidly mounted (compressed) say with some hood pins.

Is this a spec miata time or emilio's or what?

IIRC, I remember rappadan saying he had to reinforce the inside of his trunk lid as after track time it start warping the shit out of it due to sheer force on teh wing....probably could use some turnbuckles or something.

something like this: Longacre Racing Online -- Online Catalog


http://forum.miata.net/vb/attachment...chmentid=69652

Reminds me of the RE-A GT wing
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I have 2 FC's and if one of them had the mods to back it up, id definatly buy one

actually that might be the odula wing my bad

why do I have a funny feeling that before all of this shit is over, I'm going to have a 2554 instead of the tater, a wing, and a bunch of other shit I swore off a long time ago?

Well, maybe that big turbo will be nice on the bigger tracks. If I get this job I just made the interview list for, my daily miata is about to become a stripper turbo-race car because I'll have the track membership to use it.

:giggle:

I swore off all that stuff to, My WRX is very simple.

Savington,

What company makes that monster huge low front dam for Miata's. It's a track piece. Huge thing they tested very well at the track. It was always pictured in primer gray on the car. Can't find it on the search but it had a thread maybe 6-8 months ago. Seems to me it was $200-300. Immediately thought of that one to compliment the wing. I should find a trunk to swap out for track days to run something like that too. Couldn't run it on the street without laughing at myself.

Me likes.

Treed by Hustler.

Found these on cr.net. I know i was drooling for more pics of sav's car, especially in action.

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note: these arent my pics, the thread i linked them from is ClubRoadster.net • View topic - Roadster Challenge Rd. 2 and Misc track day pix. [ Guest ]

Looking great sav, but +1 on a front splitter.

Slickauto works with Drift Association?

How is Naoki doing these days?

yeah- that ISC piece would be easy to add a splitter too. And it's kicksass as-is. We saw a 3mph speed coming out of T1 at Rd. Atl. thanks to the immense amount of front end grip it added. But don't go off track with it or it'll take the front bumper with it.

Hustler FTW! That's the dam. $225 for a functional part isn't bad. Might help counter some of that new understeer from that godawful new wing.

Hustler, big wing, functional dam, 2860rs and your car will be a Monster at the track. With your built motor and a 2554, when you get tired of 250hp you will hate yourself. Stay 2860 and when you want more power you've got the breathing room. Man up and join the 300hp club! (I'm not a member but I'd sure like to be there)

Yeah, I'd love to add the ISC air dam. Mabye. I need tires before my next track day so maybe I'll wait on the splitter until I have the ISC dam as well.

edit: lol, in the 2nd photo if you look really closely you can see how badly my left front tire is corded. There is a huge patch of metal cord in the middle of it.

That one sure is purty... I love my 40buck APR GT wing on track. Show cars selling their real bling parts ftw....

Ignore the rake here... had just mounted it to the spare track trunklid.
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/m...e/IMG_0205.jpg

Badass.

ever since I sold my 99, i've been kickin my ass for not keeping the nice carbon wing I had and for selling the spare trunk lid that came with my car :(

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Fucking LOVE the paint on it. Little Renown 787 :) If I was to do anything other than single color, it would be that. Id imagine that wasnt cheap (or easy if you did it yourself).

Any way to mount the ISC dam in a way to break away from the front if you went offroading, without it coming off from wind forces, or touching another car? Maybe just less bolts. Either way, it would still mess up the front. Also, what is the point on the fiberglass hood at only a 2lb loss? A healthy bump could lose me more than that, or removing a layer of clothing. I guess to some 2lb is worth it, when everything else possible is gone.

It just needs a metal frame. You can't expect to mount it to the bumper and have it stay on. I'll do a big metal frame for it as well as a splitter under it.

I used industrial grade velcro for a spoiler on my ITA Miata, but it weighed far less than the ISC piece- and had WAY less down force. Was more for keeping the air from under the car. The ISC piece is fairly heavy (relatively speaking), so it would probably require the actually product and session under the car to figure something out.

I failed to mention that the ISC also made a huge difference on the tire wear we were seeing on the fronts. It virtually eliminated any push we were seeing on turn-in - thus the higher entry (and exit) speeds.

Here's the aftermath of the off and the process to remove the remaining pieces of the ISC spoiler during a pitstop:
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t...spoilerISC.jpg

What's the opinion about the Garage Vary lip combined with this? Is the GV functional at all? Combined with a splitter?

Saw these pics over at cr.net, they are tagged slickauto.net. Anyone have anyinfo on the mounts used here?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3217/...e77c5dd0_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3215/...46e8705f_o.jpg

Looks like 2.5" risers. I'll have the same thing in a week.

It looks like the wing is mounted to the rear quarter panel through the gap in the trunk lid.

Also, How do you measure the angle of attack w/ 3d wing like these?

You just measure in the middle. They produce significant downforce at 0 degrees of attack.

Sav, thanks for sharing all this info. Its just what i needed to convince me to pick up a wing.

Now to see if it'll fit an NB. I measured my trunk lid as 40.75" is that the same as the NA's?

I hate wings, but that one looks good, and most look good on a miata just because I know the there is reason. Small light car + rear wheel drive = downforce.

My miata is a little ways away from worrying about wings and etc. I've always been a big believer of aerodynamics. I read up a lot of formula one aerodynamic progression and there are some cool pages here: Browser Warning
That is just one article, look around and you'll find much more. Its nice to see someone do some sort of study. They show you how if you build a proper underbody to the car, you can actually direct more air through the engine bay without adding scoops by controlling the low and high pressure areas.

Cool stuff, I'll definitely be fabbing a underbody lip and spoiler for mine when I get more pressing steps done.

I'd rock that on the streets anyway...You have a race car, not a rice car..There is a difference even if the average joe doesnt see it.

FYI - The NA Miata has a Cd of .37

I like the mounts, but I don't see them or the miata specific wing listed at SlickAuto.net Any information on whether or not they will sell the mounts alone? Two questions are 1) what is the mounting width and 2) are they adaptable to use with the GT-II base stands?

Thank you. I did it myself in about 12 hrs...all with vinyl.

I'm so getting that wing when I get another NA.

The OGK is about 5 sec faster than the fastest Spec Miatas but it didn't run that day. Going CW (the other direction) without aero, it's done a 1:25.8 in much warmer weather. CCW is about .75 faster so I'm pretty comfortable estimating a mid to high 1:24 CCW.

The car that did the 1:25.5 in last Sunday's Miata Challenge was bellwilliam's NB with a non-intercooled Kraftwerks Rotrex Supercharger we installed the night before.

http://www.949racing.com/kraftwerks/...liam_MC2_b.jpg

I have an ISC on the OGK and ran it without a wing for two events. Car was beautifully balanced before the ISC, a tad loose with it but not undriveably so. Adding a dual aluminum element APR wing with oversize carbon end plates made it push pretty much everywhere. That was running it at 0°. Running it at about 4-5° allowed me to go through Riverside at Buttonwillow at a little over 90mph... in the rain.

So what I discovered is that the wing is making a bunch more downforce than the ISC. Pretty much all the fast Miata track guys with wings are planning major front downforce to keep up with the wing. Like Savington said, just slapping canards on it is not necessarily the most efficient and the Miata is already a brick. We plan on doing something for MC #3 but it's tOp seKrit.

https://015e409.netsolstores.com/90_...W_122208_e.jpg