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Old 10-25-2007, 12:56 PM   #21
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Well as a comparison, a 1.8 built shortblock with Weiscos and Carillos, new oil pump and water pump from FM is about $4K. So $3K would be a good starting price.

Finding a good block from a boneyard would be the same work for a machine shop as taking a customers block and doing the prep work on it, so I don't see why that would add to the cost. The machine shop would obviously be dealing with a boneyard for these and have an agreement that the blocks are good.

Sourcing donor blocks is as easy as car-part.com. Once you have 4-5 good ones, you're dealing with customer cores anyway. It's not like a shop will be selling 20 built motors a week. Say 3 a month max. Block supply should be easy.

It would be nice if a shop had 1 or 2 on the shelf ready to ship. Or had the ability to build one in a week.

Frank
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Old 10-25-2007, 01:25 PM   #22
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yes agreed...there is not a whole lot of turn over there for it to be a real problem...but lets say i want my block, i know i didnt abuse it, blow it up, etc., i know it and feel comfortable with it, what then, i dont want a block i dont know the history on...i guess that could be a difference in opinions

can someone share with me what i can expect $$ wise to get a reputable shop to do the work if a provided my own parts...everything, bore over, balance crank, all neccasary stuff, i never dealt with an engine build before, so dont know anyhting about it
thanks
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Old 10-25-2007, 01:28 PM   #23
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I'm sorry Frank; I can't fathom your concept being fiscally responsible. There aren't a whole lot of small businesses (and engine builders are small businesses) that can simply shelve built motors. Relating specifically to miata motors, if it were possible, FM would be doing it. The demand obviously isn't there, and there are too many high dollar variables involved.

Thinking REAL WORLD, if a company could produce a built shortblock for $3k out the door, with a 30 day turn around, would you buy it?
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Old 10-25-2007, 01:33 PM   #24
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i would not...seems steep to me, but again, not experienced in the field, i would go for 2K tops, maybe im cheap...but that sounds high to me too, but its doable if i really wanted it
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Old 10-25-2007, 01:40 PM   #25
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You might be able to build your own and stay within $2k. You'd just have to watch out for that slope; it's slippery. There's no way any shop could build one for that though. They'd loose money.
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Old 10-25-2007, 02:28 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
shipping isn't that bad. especially if you do a lot of it or know what the cheap methods are.

I once had a motor delivered complete for $50 from LA to SF. Course it was in a friend's truck but still....




btw, Jim Belfabrication mentioned he'd do just what you want Frank. I think the cost was like 2k plus block.

hmm, i got a couple 1.8 blocks. one may be seeing it's way to Belfab soon...
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Old 10-25-2007, 03:04 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
You might be able to build your own and stay within $2k. You'd just have to watch out for that slope; it's slippery. There's no way any shop could build one for that though. They'd loose money.
really, holly crap, this stuff is $$$ even though you bought everything on your own, and brought to them to do the machineing etc. not sure what else goes in the process which is why i dont see the value yet...
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Old 10-25-2007, 03:37 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
I'm sorry Frank; I can't fathom your concept being fiscally responsible. There aren't a whole lot of small businesses (and engine builders are small businesses) that can simply shelve built motors. Relating specifically to miata motors, if it were possible, FM would be doing it. The demand obviously isn't there, and there are too many high dollar variables involved.

Thinking REAL WORLD, if a company could produce a built shortblock for $3k out the door, with a 30 day turn around, would you buy it?
Just 'cause I want it, doesn't mean it's feasible. The built motor Miata market simply isn't that big, and FM probably has %90 of the built motor market.

At this point, I could wait 30 days. I've got other cars. On my previous Miata/built motor I couldn't, as I blew the motor and needed the new one. And the major delays cause problems. I'd just like to know that if I'm going to order a motor today, I can make sure I pull the old one on some weekend in the next month and also know that the new built one will be sitting at my door or in my garage when promised. Back when I built my old one though, there were NO off the shelf rods or pistons. I had to send rods to Crower and Pistons to Ross to get one-offs made.

Anyone know what FM's turnaround is? I'm sure they have everything in stock along with a couple bare blocks to build. Just wondering.

Frank
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Old 10-25-2007, 04:21 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fmowry View Post
Just 'cause I want it, doesn't mean it's feasible. The built motor Miata market simply isn't that big.
Yeah, exactly. It's just not possible to have off the shelf, discount motors. And anyone who can build a custom motor inside a week is either starving (which is typically for a reason) or is going to charge a huge premium.

Again, if there is real demand for a more moderately priced shortblock with reasonable turn around, I will perform detailed cost and feasibility projections with my father's shop. I won't bore you with their qualifications and pedegrees at this time, so for now, just take my word that they're high end.

So far I'm not seeing the market, but perhaps there's not enough awareness yet.
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Old 10-25-2007, 04:33 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whaaamx5 View Post
really, holly crap, this stuff is $$$ even though you bought everything on your own, and brought to them to do the machineing etc. not sure what else goes in the process which is why i dont see the value yet...
Just the big items:
Pistons & Rods 800
Machine Shop 500
ARP studs 250
Total: 1550
Then you still have bearings, crank seals, oil pump, water pump, etc, which will easily put you at $2k.
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Old 10-25-2007, 04:36 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul View Post
hmm, i got a couple 1.8 blocks. one may be seeing it's way to Belfab soon...
send it to me first.
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Old 10-25-2007, 08:48 PM   #32
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what bout these looks like a better deal, pistons and rods forged.

http://www.belfabracing.com/product_...oducts_id=1549
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Old 10-25-2007, 10:28 PM   #33
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I just got a email from them saying they where doing full motors with them finding blocks. Ben if the built motor runs the billet gears i think your 3K price point is pretty good. consider my short block was something like 1400$ with my 700$ weiscos and they took forever to ship the weiscos, and i am still stuck on stock rods for now.
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Old 11-02-2007, 11:02 PM   #34
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I spoke with my dad about this, and he decided that he could build shortblocks for $2600 + block core of $250. Motors to include Wisco pistons (choice of bore & compression), Cat (949) rods, new oil pump, ARP studs, new bearings, all machining & balancing, etc. 30 day turn around expected. 50% deposit due at inception and balance due at completion. To gauge interest, he will offer the first shortblock at $2500 and no core charge. Also, if there trully is demand, he will stock poplular pistons to shorten turn around to 1-2 weeks. If anyone is interested, PM me.

Ben
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Old 11-02-2007, 11:28 PM   #35
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I'm not sure if he has a dealer account with wiseco or anything, but race engineering stocks all the miata pistons. I got mine in 3 days.
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