saw a 99 with a MSM turbo kit on it yesterday - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 06-09-2007, 11:23 AM   #1
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Default saw a 99 with a MSM turbo kit on it yesterday

He was running it with no management, and finally slapped on a voodoo box. No wonder he was having issues before. I didn't even bother to ask what injectors or other stuff he was running, maybe next time I see him I will ask. He was talking about heat problems and I was like "I had a huge FMIC made more power on my 92 and never overheated in Texas." I told him to get some better shrouding before trying anything else."


Made me think about trying to find a cheap MSM setup lol, but if I did that I'm pretty sure i'd end up taking everything off and doing it over again :gay:
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Old 06-09-2007, 11:46 PM   #2
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not worth doing imo, especially if you plan on going with a bigger set up down the road. you're fairly limited with the stock MSM IHI turbo set up.
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Old 06-10-2007, 01:05 AM   #3
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the MSM can make more power than people think it can. Not that I would go that route but it can
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Old 06-10-2007, 01:17 AM   #4
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Only if you can find the turbo and mani for dirt cheap. I've not ever seen one for sale priced reasonably--always over the price of getting a new mani and a GT turbo from BEGi. The MSM intake and exhaust suck, and aren't worth using.
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Old 06-10-2007, 01:50 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitlab77 View Post
the MSM can make more power than people think it can. Not that I would go that route but it can
It's got the same engine as the a stock '99, so it can take roughly the same power as that engine.

Do you mean to say there's discrepancy on how much power the NB engines can take because I'd definitely agree with you there.
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Old 06-10-2007, 11:42 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Brian View Post
It's got the same engine as the a stock '99, so it can take roughly the same power as that engine.

Do you mean to say there's discrepancy on how much power the NB engines can take because I'd definitely agree with you there.
what I am saying is the MSM setup can make more power than people give it credit for. Is it an mega power setup, hell no, but people always give up on it too quick. Just like people like to say "it is a horrible autox car". I have friends that are having good success with it.
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Old 06-12-2007, 08:38 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Pitlab77 View Post
what I am saying is the MSM setup can make more power than people give it credit for. Is it an mega power setup, hell no, but people always give up on it too quick. Just like people like to say "it is a horrible autox car". I have friends that are having good success with it.
On stock turbos, you'll be limited to about 230-240 rwhp (total cost, $3000-4000). It's not bad but for the amount of money you'll spend, the dollar for horsepower spent isn't all that great. If I had to do it again, I would not have bought an MSM. I would've bought a 2001 and slapped on a FM kit.

People give up on the car 'too quick' because we know what the limitations are, which I've listed already. If you want a decent powerband, you'll need a standalone ECU. For anything above 10-11 psi, you'll need larger injectors. Right there you're looking at about $2000 for the Hydra set up and bigger injectors.

The people that say it's not the best autoX are the ones who can't heel-toe or they're too lazy to shift 2-3 / 3-2.
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Old 06-12-2007, 10:02 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by got rice? View Post
On stock turbos, you'll be limited to about 230-240 rwhp (total cost, $3000-4000). It's not bad but for the amount of money you'll spend, the dollar for horsepower spent isn't all that great. If I had to do it again, I would not have bought an MSM. I would've bought a 2001 and slapped on a FM kit.

People give up on the car 'too quick' because we know what the limitations are, which I've listed already. If you want a decent powerband, you'll need a standalone ECU. For anything above 10-11 psi, you'll need larger injectors. Right there you're looking at about $2000 for the Hydra set up and bigger injectors.

The people that say it's not the best autoX are the ones who can't heel-toe or they're too lazy to shift 2-3 / 3-2.
first read what I wrote. I did not say I was going to do this.

I guess you are the only ones that know what the limitations are, looks like you think the Hydra is the only option. If you are spending that much on it that you are getting rip because you can upgrade the i/c, injectors, dp and exhaust for a lot less than that. And still have some left over for something other than the Hydra
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Old 06-12-2007, 11:49 PM   #9
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I read what you wrote and my comment wasn't directed at you. It was a general comment that it's not worth putting on the MSM set up on a 99. Then you made the comment, "Made me think about trying to find a cheap MSM setup."

$150-200 Ebay intercooler with hoses & tbolt clamps
$300-450 downpipe
$350-500 catback
$200-300 intake
$70-90 throttle body pipe
$1600-2000 Hydra Nemisis (or less for the Xede)
$300-400 480 or 550 cc injectors

Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see the total coming out less than $3000 unless you go with a shop-made exhaust system, which would save $100-200.
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Old 06-13-2007, 12:03 AM   #10
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Or

$300 Ebay intercooler with pipes, couplers, clamps.
$300-450 downpipe
$400 Manifold
$250 Turbo
$200 Catback because who the hell buys pre-built exhauast anyway?
$300 Megasquirt with IAT and Misc crap to build it yourself.
$150(tops) Cleaned/Tested 550s or anything else

Even with the other parts needed and considering these are prices for new parts I don't see where $3k comes from. Maybe if you bought a clutch and a ton of beer for the install.
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Old 06-13-2007, 01:15 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by cjernigan View Post
Or

$300 Ebay intercooler with pipes, couplers, clamps.
$300-450 downpipe
$400 Manifold
$250 Turbo
$200 Catback because who the hell buys pre-built exhauast anyway?
$300 Megasquirt with IAT and Misc crap to build it yourself.
$150(tops) Cleaned/Tested 550s or anything else

Even with the other parts needed and considering these are prices for new parts I don't see where $3k comes from. Maybe if you bought a clutch and a ton of beer for the install.
what I was thinking.
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Old 06-14-2007, 01:21 PM   #12
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Hey guys, i'm a newb on this forum. I just purchased a 94 miata and am starting my research for a turbo install sometime this coming winter. I've been a member of the 3000gt/stealth community for a long time and it is very common there for someone with one of the normally aspirated motors to purchase the used stock parts from a TT owner who is upgrading to TT their NA. So naturally this thread piqued my interest. I guess it sounds like not many do or have done this with the MSM setup though, correct? what exactly is the stock turbo on an MSM, anyways? I tried searching but not much luck.
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Old 06-14-2007, 01:53 PM   #13
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Yes, there is such an abundance of aftermarket turbo and supercharger options for the Miata that are superior in every way to the MSM's components, that there's no point.
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Old 06-14-2007, 02:04 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian View Post
Yes, there is such an abundance of aftermarket turbo and supercharger options for the Miata that are superior in every way to the MSM's components, that there's no point.
+1
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Old 06-14-2007, 03:13 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Brian View Post
Yes, there is such an abundance of aftermarket turbo and supercharger options for the Miata that are superior in every way to the MSM's components, that there's no point.
could you be a little more in depth than that? or point me in the right direction to do my own research? i've been attempting to do just that but it seems info about the stock MSM parts is scarce...

i mean, yes many (if not most) aftermarket systems have great potential. however i'd like to be able to compare some hard data rather than "yah, that stuff sucks." especially considering not everyone is looking to go for broke (literally) in the power department. if my goals are more around the 220-230whp range for auto-x and and hpde type track days, the msm setup seems like it could be a good bang for the buck setup, especially since the poor turbo response sounds like it's caused more by the ecu control than the hardware setup. and since im OBDI, i'm going to have more freedom working with piggybacks if i don't want to go stand alone.

so my understanding is that it's a cast manifold with an IHI turbo of unknown (to me so far still) specs. what are the spool and lag characteristics on a stock MSM and one that's been upgraded to fix any deficiencies, and how does this compare to turbo systems designed for the same goals i am looking for?
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Old 06-14-2007, 05:32 PM   #16
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Well for the price that people want to sell the factory MSM parts you can get a nicer manifold, better downpipe, larger turbo (does not have to be a huge one but one that will flow more cfms and heat up the air less), and a better I/C for only a bit more.

of course a huge bottle neck is the dp and exhaust for why pay for a MSM factory one
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Old 06-14-2007, 05:43 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluej View Post
could you be a little more in depth than that? or point me in the right direction to do my own research?
Nope. Sorry. Busy day at work

Check out www.bellengineering.net , www.flyinmiata.com , www.fastforwardsuperchargers.com , www.etdracing.com , www.jgsturbo.com , etc. for parts, kits and such. I believe BEGi's site has some manifold and downpipe comparison pics of the stock MSM's stuff.
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Old 06-14-2007, 07:06 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Brian View Post
Nope. Sorry. Busy day at work

Check out www.bellengineering.net , www.flyinmiata.com , www.fastforwardsuperchargers.com , www.etdracing.com , www.jgsturbo.com , etc. for parts, kits and such. I believe BEGi's site has some manifold and downpipe comparison pics of the stock MSM's stuff.
been to all those places, including the comparo's that FM did.

look, all i'm really looking for is what the stock turbo is on the MSM. i've been having a hell of a time trying to find it. does nobody know? would anyone who owns a MSM be willing to just go copy down the numbers on the turbo so i can go from there?
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Old 06-14-2007, 07:08 PM   #19
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Call corky at BEGi he can tell you everything you need to know about it.
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Old 06-14-2007, 07:38 PM   #20
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