Shrouds / fans -- FM vs. Mishimoto? - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


General Miata Chat A place to talk about anything Miata

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 07-16-2013, 12:56 PM   #1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Springfield, NJ
Posts: 670
Total Cats: 0
Default Shrouds / fans -- FM vs. Mishimoto?

Anyone have comments / experience / useful thoughts (other than the obvious price difference) of FM Stage 1/2 shrouds/fans vs. the Bell/Mishimoto setup?

FM Stage 1: Flyin' Miata : Engine/Drivetrain : Cooling : Stage 1 Flyin Miata airflow kit

FM Stage 2: Flyin' Miata : Engine/Drivetrain : Cooling : Stage 2 Flyin Miata airflow kit

Bell/Mishimoto: Mishimoto Fan Shroud 99-05 Mazda Miata BEGi
evank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2013, 01:45 PM   #2
Elite Member
iTrader: (10)
 
soviet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: VA
Posts: 3,518
Total Cats: 258
Default

If you have a good radiator, fans are only used for sitting in traffic
Therefore I would get a single 12" fan without a shroud

I have a single 14" SPAL and its too much.
soviet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2013, 01:55 PM   #3
Elite Member
iTrader: (9)
 
TurboTim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chesterfield, NJ
Posts: 6,485
Total Cats: 248
Default

For less than the price of BEGI's mishimoto's, I got the fans/shroud & aluminum radiator shipped off ebay. I'd bet the same price that they are identical, from the same ching pow refinery.
TurboTim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2013, 02:13 PM   #4
Senior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Beckley, WV
Posts: 868
Total Cats: 36
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboTim View Post
For less than the price of BEGI's mishimoto's, I got the fans/shroud & aluminum radiator shipped off ebay. I'd bet the same price that they are identical, from the same ching pow refinery.
Mishimoto has been very adamant that their radiator is designed by them and manufactured by their partner (in china) only for them.

Of course I still don't know if I believe them, but here are their words.

I'm still on the fence about their radiator. I had one in my first NA and both the radiator and cap failed in the 2 year span I had them. Radiator spring a leak in the fins and was replaced no problem under warranty. Cap was just a POS and I replaced it on my own instead of dealing with paying warranty shipping for another piece of junk. I will say, their warranty is good, but you will need it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mishimoto View Post
Hey guys, I thought I'd chime in on this conversation and help answer a few questions and misunderstandings.

First off, I want to state that our products are not copies of any other company listed in this thread. Our products are designed by our extremely skilled engineers and manufactured from high quality materials, with a very high standard of quality control resulting in a defect rate well below industry standard.

Also, all of our products come with a 100% guaranteed lifetime warranty, which covers everything from product defects to accident protection.

Second, all of our products are designed to be a direct fit with no modification necessary, so fitment should not be a concern (unless otherwise stated). Example would be our X-Line Rads which are much thicker than stock, so slim fans may be required or minor trimming of the OEM shroud to fit with a larger front sway bar.

I'd be happy to answer any other questions any of you may have regarding our products.

Thanks,
Tyler
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mishimoto View Post
Our products are manufactured in a variety of facilities. Mishimoto is a global provider with offices in Delaware, Los Angeles, Birmingham, United Kingdom and Shanghai, China. All products are designed, engineered and tested in New Castle, Delaware at our corporate headquarters using state of the art machinery (CMM arms, AWD Dyno, Rapid Prototyping, etc.). The manufacturing location depends on the product we are manufacturing. For example, all of our intercooler pipes for diesel trucks are made in Los Angeles. Our stamped aluminum brackets come from Texas. The radiator referenced in this post is in fact made in China, under strict control of our American operated Shanghai branch. We try to make as many parts in the States as possible, where feasible. With that said, much like Samsung or Apple, it comes down to the engineering behind the part and the quality control of the manufacturing. With a lifetime warranty on every part we manufacture, it is safe to say our parts are of the highest quality.

We actually do oversee the manufacturing as we have a supply chain office with 10 engineers that work in China and oversee the implementation of our USA designs. So, on the contrary, we can control what our facilities do.


Check out some images from our Shanghai office.





Here are some shots of our facility in New Castle, Delaware. Highlighting the engineering department.











Feel free to ask any other questions you may have!

Thanks,
Tyler
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mishimoto View Post
Our specific fan shroud kit for the Miata comes with an all aluminum fan shroud and 2 12" slim fans, both of which push out over 900 CFM. Our fan shroud also comes with a 3M backing to protect the rad and create a proper seal for optimum air flow. On top of that, like I said before, all of our products come with a Lifetime Warranty.
Attached Thumbnails
Shrouds / fans -- FM vs. Mishimoto?-5umwio.jpg   Shrouds / fans -- FM vs. Mishimoto?-2s7z7dd.jpg  
Tekel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2013, 02:56 PM   #5
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Springfield, NJ
Posts: 670
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboTim View Post
For less than the price of BEGI's mishimoto's, I got the fans/shroud & aluminum radiator shipped off ebay. I'd bet the same price that they are identical, from the same ching pow refinery.
Whoa .... Tim thanks for the tip .... I see 'em on eBay for sub-$100.
evank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2013, 03:03 PM   #6
Elite Member
iTrader: (9)
 
TurboTim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chesterfield, NJ
Posts: 6,485
Total Cats: 248
Default

OK then.

For less than the price of BEGI's mishimoto fan/shroud assy, I got what looks to me to be very good copies of mishimoto's fan with shroud & their aluminum radiator shipped off ebay. My $185 shipped combo deal looked to be at least Taiwanese quality, much better than I was expecting.

While the entire thing was a bolt-in replacement for the factory pieces, I cut/welded mine to suit my needs. The aluminum was not the typical swisscheese chinese crap metal, it welded quite nicely.
TurboTim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2013, 03:09 PM   #7
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Springfield, NJ
Posts: 670
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by soviet View Post
If you have a good radiator, fans are only used for sitting in traffic
Therefore I would get a single 12" fan without a shroud

I have a single 14" SPAL and its too much.
I have the CXRacing radiator w/ 2" core. But I only have el-cheapo fans -- two of these: Radiator Cooling Fan -- and they're mounted flush against the radiator.

That might explain why I saw the temp needle go farther than usual to the right side after just 45 minutes of driving in 90+ outside temp this week... (at the moment I have no way to measure engine temp other than the stock gauge.)

So a proper shroud seems like a good idea. Or tell me why I'm an idiot.
evank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2013, 03:11 PM   #8
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Ellicott City, MD
Posts: 458
Total Cats: 6
Default

Dear Tim,

Which rad did you get from ebay?

Thank you,
me
MicaCeli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2013, 03:51 PM   #9
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,436
Total Cats: 58
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by soviet View Post
If you have a good radiator, fans are only used for sitting in traffic
Therefore I would get a single 12" fan without a shroud

I have a single 14" SPAL and its too much.
I only autocross and sometimes daily on the highway. A 12" fan attached to the radiator with Mishimoto pushthrough zip ties is all I use with the 55mm Koyo radiator.
Enginerd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2013, 04:11 PM   #10
Elite Member
iTrader: (9)
 
TurboTim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chesterfield, NJ
Posts: 6,485
Total Cats: 248
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MicaCeli View Post
Dear Tim,

Which rad did you get from ebay?

Thank you,
me
Miata MX5 MX 5 Dual Core Full Aluminum Radiator X2 Fan Shroud Cooling Racing | eBay
TurboTim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2013, 04:42 PM   #11
I'm a terrible person
iTrader: (19)
 
FRT_Fun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 7,293
Total Cats: 180
Default

For what it's worth I have a single fan with a Koyo radiator and didn't see high temps yesterday and it was 118 degrees outside. And I was doing WOT pulls up and down the road.
FRT_Fun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2013, 05:39 PM   #12
Junior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Irvine, Ca
Posts: 277
Total Cats: 23
Default

I have had 2 el cheepo fans die on me. On the subject of the mishimoto fans at the 25 hours of thunderhill one of Nemo's mishimoto fans fin exploded and punctured the radiator, overheated the motor and killed it. I think I will pass on cheap fans. I have some spals on mine that seem to be ok.
cjsafski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 06:50 PM   #13
I'm Miserable!
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 13
Total Cats: -5
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tekel View Post
Mishimoto has been very adamant that their radiator is designed by them and manufactured by their partner (in china) only for them.

Of course I still don't know if I believe them, but here are their words.

I'm still on the fence about their radiator. I had one in my first NA and both the radiator and cap failed in the 2 year span I had them. Radiator spring a leak in the fins and was replaced no problem under warranty. Cap was just a POS and I replaced it on my own instead of dealing with paying warranty shipping for another piece of junk. I will say, their warranty is good, but you will need it.
Thank you for re-posting my comments from another thread. We stand 100% behind all of our products and their quality, which is why we back everything with our lifetime warranty.

I would be happy to answer any questions or concerns regarding our products. Thanks
mishimoto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 06:59 PM   #14
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
concealer404's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,465
Total Cats: 782
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by soviet View Post
If you have a good radiator, fans are only used for sitting in traffic
Therefore I would get a single 12" fan without a shroud

I have a single 14" SPAL and its too much.
Not true.

Due to the Miata's poor airflow into the "mouth," coupled with having to breath through an intercooler or whatever else is in front of the radiator, it's pretty important to have good fans even on the highway.


I just got back from a 3 week long road trip through some of the hottest places in the country.

I have the setup that Tim linked. The radiator is good, and 100% identical as far as i can tell to the two Mishimotos that i've handled in person. The shroud is also 100% identical. The fans also looked identical, but i don't feel GOOD about labeling them as actually being identical, as i didn't open them up to look at the motors.


Long story short, the car would keep perfectly acceptable temperatures at idle and in traffic.

Then overheat on the highway. This is not uncommon, i found, after talking to a few shops.

The fans with the setup were complete and utter garbage. Both were working, both were turning on when they were supposed to, they just couldn't keep up.


I now have the FM Stage 1 kit on my car, and temps are perfect and rock solid across the board. The amount of additional juice/***/torque/whatever the FM-supplied SPALs have over the fans that came with the kit is NOT subtle.


If i had more time and wasn't in a jam, would i have purchased the entire FM kit? Probably not, though i have exactly ZERO complaints with it, and feel like it may very be worth the money, especially in the jam i was in. What i would have done, had i had more time, was track down some actual GOOD fans that mounted in the shroud that came with my kit. To FM's credit, they tried to do just that for me, but the SPALs didn't match up, and i didn't feel like asking them to do custom work to a shroud not even sold by them.


OP: it's worth mentioning that the factory fan setup is actually quite good, and you're going to have to do some wiring stuff and make a compromise in how the fans function. My setup is on an 04 MSM. The radiator alone will often sell for $120 shipped. I can recommend the radiator, and even the shroud that it might come with.

Ebay Radiator + fans + shroud = $200 or less. Figure $100-$150 for a set of good fans, and you're ready to rock.

Or get the Ebay radiator for $120. FM airflow kit, and you've got a pretty bulletproof setup. FM called my setup "gross overkill" for my car. I like gross overkill.
concealer404 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 07:24 PM   #15
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 14,366
Total Cats: 1,326
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
Long story short, the car would keep perfectly acceptable temperatures at idle and in traffic.

Then overheat on the highway. This is not uncommon, i found, after talking to a few shops.
Do you have a factory plastic undertray?
Savington is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 08:03 PM   #16
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
concealer404's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,465
Total Cats: 782
Default

Not all of it. It goes past the radiator though.

Not really the point anyways. The car did NOT overheat with the stock fans.
concealer404 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 08:46 PM   #17
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 14,366
Total Cats: 1,326
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
Not all of it. It goes past the radiator though.
Thought so. If you don't have a full undertray (OEM or otherwise), the airflow under the car at highway speeds will get up into the engine bay behind the radiator and increase engine bay pressure, which blocks airflow through the radiator. It's not enough that your undertray gets to the radiator - it needs to get all the way to the subframe/oil pan like the OEM one does.

The only cars that overheat on the highway (this includes turbo cars with big intercoolers) are the ones that don't have an undertray. Your new big fans are just counteracting this flaw in your cooling system.
Savington is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 09:20 PM   #18
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Springfield, NJ
Posts: 670
Total Cats: 0
Default

I ordered a $90 eBay shroud/fan set today, which should mate right up to my CXRacing radiator. Next: gotta find me an OEM undertray; I don't feel like modding the non-MSM version (although the MSM version might need trimming anyone to fit my car's larger IC.) Anyway, the shroud itself should help partially vs. current setup of both fans flush against the radiator.

Thanks everyone for the helpful information.
evank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 09:32 PM   #19
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
concealer404's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,465
Total Cats: 782
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Thought so. If you don't have a full undertray (OEM or otherwise), the airflow under the car at highway speeds will get up into the engine bay behind the radiator and increase engine bay pressure, which blocks airflow through the radiator. It's not enough that your undertray gets to the radiator - it needs to get all the way to the subframe/oil pan like the OEM one does.

The only cars that overheat on the highway (this includes turbo cars with big intercoolers) are the ones that don't have an undertray. Your new big fans are just counteracting this flaw in your cooling system.
You didn't read my post. This didn't happen with stock fans. Regardless of your thoughts on the tray, the fan and shroud that came with the setup were much inferior to the stock fans.

That was the point, especially relevant to OP, as we have the same cars.
concealer404 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 09:37 PM   #20
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Springfield, NJ
Posts: 670
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
the fan and shroud that came with the setup were much inferior to the stock fans.
Perhaps, but I don't have the stock fans, and they wouldn't fit with my car's aluminum radiator anyhow. Also I haven't got the $$ for the FM / Spal fans. So it sounds like the eBay shroud/fans will at least partially improve on the current situation, and the tray, when I get it, will do the rest. (I'm not tracking the car.)
evank is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rotrex cooling issue gsyk59 Engine Performance 49 11-22-2015 05:11 AM
Back to Stock Part Out!! Turbo Parts, MS2 Enhanced 01-05, Suspension, and MOAR! StratoBlue1109 Miata parts for sale/trade 16 10-02-2015 10:39 AM
why is my car running like pewp? (tune/datalog) itsMikey MSPNP 3 09-28-2015 07:40 AM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:46 AM.