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Old 07-18-2013, 09:41 PM   #21
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I'd start looking for new fans to put on that shroud now, and probably taking Sav's advice on the tray. I highly doubt you'll see an improvement with just what you bought, unfortunately.
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Old 07-18-2013, 09:47 PM   #22
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Here's my logic. Currently, with two generic 12" fans flush against the radiator, there remains a lot of radiator surface area where air isn't passing through the fans. Whereas even with the eBay shroud, it'll force / redirect pretty much all of the air to pass through the fans. How could that NOT improve things? (Putting it another way: for this situation, the upgrade isn't old eBay fans vs. new eBay fans, but rather no shroud before vs. shroud after.) Also, since you're such a fan expert what do you recommend ... how do I know which fans are "better" ones to attach to the shroud?
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Old 07-18-2013, 09:52 PM   #23
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I'm not an expert, just giving my extremely similar and relevant experiences.

Fans actually become an obstruction at speed unless running. A weak fan will not counteract this.

Better fans? You can go by cfm rating, but that might not tell you much about "torque."

Amps don't lie, though. More draw = more power.
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Old 07-18-2013, 09:57 PM   #24
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Fwiw, I have a stock setup I'd ship to you for cheap if you find yourself in a bind.

And the ebay fan and shroud setuo as well, for that matter.
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Old 07-18-2013, 10:18 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
You didn't read my post. This didn't happen with stock fans. Regardless of your thoughts on the tray, the fan and shroud that came with the setup were much inferior to the stock fans.
I read your post. You shouldn't even need stock fans to keep the car cool on the highway if you had a full OEM undertray installed. Unless the fans you installed were actually creating a restriction that made them worse than no fans at all (which I guess is possible), then your issue was caused by a lack of undertray and the fans you have now are a bandaid.
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Old 07-18-2013, 10:24 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by evank View Post
I ordered a $90 eBay shroud/fan set today, which should mate right up to my CXRacing radiator. Next: gotta find me an OEM undertray; I don't feel like modding the non-MSM version (although the MSM version might need trimming anyone to fit my car's larger IC.) Anyway, the shroud itself should help partially vs. current setup of both fans flush against the radiator.

Thanks everyone for the helpful information.
So you're not running an undertray either?

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Old 07-18-2013, 10:29 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
I read your post. You shouldn't even need stock fans to keep the car cool on the highway if you had a full OEM undertray installed. Unless the fans you installed were actually creating a restriction that made them worse than no fans at all (which I guess is possible), then your issue was caused by a lack of undertray and the fans you have now are a bandaid.

Then you missed the point I suppose.

That being: the ebay fan/shroud setup is worse than stock.

I'm not sure why this is complicated. I'm not discounting the importance of the undertray. I'm saying that neither setup was used with an undertray, some moron removed it prior to my ownership. When one setup overheats and another doesn't, it's pretty easy to tell which is better.

Stock msm fan setup > ebay fan setup. Regardless of anything else that might be going on, I refuse to put parts on any of my cars that are inferior to stock parts.
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Old 07-18-2013, 10:37 PM   #28
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You're missing my point, now. You specifically stated that "fans are still important on the highway", which is only true if you don't have an undertray. If you keep the factory undertray, you should not need fans on the highway (unless you have A/C).

My point is about to be that no cooling thread on this forum should happen without someone asking "Where is your damn undertray", preferably in post #2.
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Old 07-18-2013, 10:47 PM   #29
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Are you to tell me that in a miata with an undertray, the fans never come on while driving on a highway? You have way more experience than myself, but that sounds unlikely to me, and FM said otherwise when i was there. (I mentioned that my daily driver was driven for months with no fans with no issues and was curious about the differences.)

I agree with the undertray.

So what issue do you have with me saying that the stock fans are superior to the ebay crap?

Ehhhh this is getting dumb. My apologies. My car doesnt see above 187F at any point, and I'll add an undertray in the future at your recommendation. Clearly there's nothing to argue about, so I'll bow out.
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Old 07-18-2013, 10:52 PM   #30
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Are you to tell me that in a miata with an undertray, the fans never come on while driving on a highway? You have way more experience than myself, but that sounds unlikely to me, and FM said otherwise when i was there. (I mentioned that my daily driver was driven for months with no fans with no issues and was curious about the differences.)
The fans probably do run, but my point is that they don't need to. With A/C in hot weather you might need them, but otherwise no way. Rover ran for quite a long time with no fan at all (no I/C, but it did have an A/C condenser in it while we were doing radiator testing). The fan setup in it now is an 8" eBay fan, just for idle. The difference is that it never goes anywhere without an undertray.

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So what issue do you have with me saying that the stock fans are superior to the ebay crap?
No issue with that, only with the idea that you need fans on the highway.
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Old 07-18-2013, 11:01 PM   #31
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So you're not running an undertray either?

Correct. But unlike some other people in this thread I am admitting that it's a dumb thing to do and I'm going to take your advice and get one.
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Old 07-18-2013, 11:49 PM   #32
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C'mon guys don't you read any of the threads in the race prep section? Ducting. Your fancy Spal fans move less air than driving 60 does.
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Old 07-18-2013, 11:57 PM   #33
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I agree that ducting is the ideal thing, but it sounds like a lot of work for most of us whose cars are daily drivers / not racers. Frankly, something like removing the bumper intimidates the **** out of me.
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Old 07-19-2013, 12:29 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soviet View Post
If you have a good radiator, fans are only used for sitting in traffic
Therefore I would get a single 12" fan without a shroud

I have a single 14" SPAL and its too much.
That's what she said. Why is the 14" too much? It's because of your measurements and pictures that I ordered the 14" Spal to go with my new baller TSE rad.
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Old 07-19-2013, 12:46 AM   #35
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Right, if you aren't going to be on the track it doesn't need to be perfect, but any ducting will be better than what you have.

I don't know, I would try $20 worth of plastic (or free if you can find political signs) before I try $100+ in fans.
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Old 07-19-2013, 01:02 AM   #36
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I have a single 14" SPAL and its too much.
not like I ever said that or anything

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Old 07-19-2013, 01:08 AM   #37
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Are stock fans out of the question on NB's with aftermarket radiators? I have a Koyo 55 on my NA (with a FMIC and AC), and was able to retain my stock fans by carefully trimming a few of the support ribs. I don't trust eBay/Partzfinder slim fans, I don't know how strong they are, and I don't like ziptieing (is that a word?) them to the radiator, blocking airflow.

C
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Old 07-19-2013, 02:12 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscar View Post
Are stock fans out of the question on NB's with aftermarket radiators?
I can't speak for all NBs, however, stock fans are definitely out of the question for an aftermarket radiator on an MSM with the FM intake kit... That's why I have generic ones zip-tied to the radiator. All I'm doing now is switching to a shroud setup in hopes of partial improvement.
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Old 07-19-2013, 02:24 AM   #39
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I have a FM TwinCooler with both stock fans on my 2002.
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Old 07-19-2013, 02:35 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evank View Post
I can't speak for all NBs, however, stock fans are definitely out of the question for an aftermarket radiator on an MSM with the FM intake kit... That's why I have generic ones zip-tied to the radiator. All I'm doing now is switching to a shroud setup in hopes of partial improvement.

Stock fans can be made to fit if you're not afraid of a little trimming.

I was too lazy to deal with that ****, and it ended up biting me in the *** about 1000 miles from home.
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