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Old 06-23-2008, 07:37 PM   #1
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Default So does Fi ruin the car?

Sorry folks this will be long.....

I used to have a 90 miata in college (10 yrs ago) and of all the cars I have ever owned, quite a few, it is the only one I really miss. I went on to factory turbo'd jap cars (rx7's 300z's) and then Porsche, and then full circle back to aircooled vw's and now I am in a position that I can afford to turbo a miata. I always wanted to with the old one but on a college budget, well it didnt get very far.

So here is my question- Is it going to ruin the balance of the car? what I have in mind is to track down a 94 or so car, possibly older depends what I find, and get the FM voodoo kit with the intercooler. then work on brakes and susp. and eventually scrounge up a set of bigger injectors and MS it.

Now I remember the miata being a very nice little car to drive, light5 on its feet and very nimble. My real concern is that by the time I am done it will end up with more power than it can handle.

I am looking forward to building and playing with the MS and may even do it first in order to get the initial tune setup with a car that is not trying to burn itself up, and 220 hp sounds right up my alley. but how many of you at this power level find yourself missing the days when it was just a fun little car to drive?

And for the record, this may all sound a little flighty, but I am a pro Porsche mechanic so as far as the mechanics go I am capable of all of it.

And finnally, I suppose an introduction is in order, so Hi. I am Blaize, I live in the U.K. (however I am an American) and I really need a decent car to take to the nurburgring. I have been there once a few months ago but it was in my lowered 77 VW bus. lap time was 27 min. so it has left me wanting for a little more, and started the ball rolling in my head to finally get a blown mx5.
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Old 06-23-2008, 07:55 PM   #2
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Are you asking about the turbo runing the car?

umm... I'd have to say no. The turbo miata's I've rode in have been quite nice, esp. when setup with good suspension and tires. Obviously more power takes more control but sounds like you know about that.
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Old 06-23-2008, 07:57 PM   #3
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Well, you've definitely asked a biased crowd.

With a mostly stock suspension, I found that turbocharging made the car somewhat livelier about the tail than I was comfortable dealing with. My rear bumper and trunk still bear the scars of a rather exciting encounter with some small trees while traveling backwards at about 30 MPH, and another forum member recently annihilated his car in a similar manner.

On the other hand, after putting some time and money into a well thought-out suspension and a good set of tires, I've found the car to be quite pleasant to drive, slightly predisposed towards understeer on trailing throttle, quick to respond yet highly manageable when cornering under power.

In all, I find that having a turbocharger system (in addition to a Torsen diff and the other supporting mods) greatly enhances the character of the car. The handling has not in any way been degraded, and the engine is, if anything, more responsive. You don't lose anything off idle, but it no longer runs out of steam just as its getting fun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaize View Post
I really need a decent car to take to the nurburgring. I have been there once a few months ago but it was in my lowered 77 VW bus. lap time was 27 min.
May I suggest a Ford Transit van? Proven to cover the 'Ring in 10:08.
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Old 06-23-2008, 09:07 PM   #4
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It's taken me about 6 months to get used to the power difference. My turbo miata is my first decently powered car though (probably 220whp @ 12psi since it's untuned) so I'm not used to going that fast in straight lines and braking that hard down from higher speeds.

I could drive it much much faster stock in turns but I am now beginning to be comfortable and start to catch up with my old cornering speeds. Turbo miata driving is very different than naturally aspirated miata driving. You actually need to use part throttle with turbo miata. Before I could pretty much WOT 95% of the time. Compartively though, naturally aspirated miata is lame-*** slow.

Please upgrade your tires and suspension. I have kyb agx w/ fm springs and that just sucks for how aggressively a turbo miata can be driven. I need to upgrade that part of my setup. I'm currently running 225/15 RS2's all around and they grip like mad so that is good. I ran 205 front 225 rear before though and that was a mistake.

Stock was lots of fun and I scared my passengers plenty but now I can scare them much more and my girlfriend goes "whee" when I floor it now . BTW you can crash while naturally aspirated too. My poor car still has scars from understeering into a guardrail (dum move on my part).

Anyways no it doesn't run the car. It makes it much better and you have to grow your skills to adapt.
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Old 06-23-2008, 10:24 PM   #5
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I just tracked mine finally last weekend... I couldn't imagine it without the turbo.

More boost is about the only thought I've had.
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Old 06-23-2008, 10:51 PM   #6
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Mine just fine. I would never want that pathetically slow car it was again.
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Old 06-23-2008, 11:24 PM   #7
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I hate my NA 1.8L...it's just slow...the other day I was behind this old guy in an SLK we made a turn at an intersection then onto a road with two lanes that merge into one...up to this point the guy had been going pretty slow, I rounded the corner pretty fast and gunned it to get up to speed but then so did he and I couldn't get past him...can't wait to get my turbo on an tuned so I can blow past people with ease. Not to race, just to be able to pass minivans and trucks because it seems that if people catch that I'm trying to pass it they floor it to be jerks. Anyway, I would highly recommend getting a turbo (even though I don't have one yet
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Old 06-23-2008, 11:29 PM   #8
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I don't think I've ever talked to anyone that thought they had too much power in any car. haha.
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Old 06-23-2008, 11:53 PM   #9
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Spend 5 minutes in a turbo-Miata and you will never be able to drive a stock one again. I was in California a month ago and drove my Dad's '97 (with some headwork) and it felt like it couldn't get out of it's own way. My '93 is faster with the wastegate arm disconnected.

If you're a mechanic, then don't buy a "kit"... and don't go near a Voodoo box. You sound like a prime candidate for a 200whp car. Look for a 94-95 model in decent shape. Bonus if you find one with a Torsen rear.

Your parts list could look something like this:
Bell Cast Manifold
Bell SS DP
GT2554r
2.5" eBay pipe kit w/silicone couplers and t-bolt clamps
27x6x3'ish Intercooler w/pick your favorite knock-off BOV
ACT HD clutch
Megasquirt (PnP if budget affords) w/EBC
Innovate LC-1
Used RX7 550cc or 460cc fuel injectors
Godspeed Radiator

The single-most expensive item will be the turbo. You can skip the GT-series and pick up an SR20det T25 which will get you [email protected] for about $200. If you buy everything up there new, you're looking at around $4k, which might seem like a lot until you realize the education you'll get by piecing it together yourself instead of buying a "kit".

Again, skip the voodoo... in fact, skip anything that requires you to hack the factory wiring harness. Look into Megasquirt, it's the latest rage.
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Old 06-24-2008, 12:22 AM   #10
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I've driven a few blown cars. Its not going to ruin the balance, its going to make it right. Idiots say that because they can't understand throttle control. At 200whp I started to think, "why the **** didn't mazda do this?" These cars are slugs in stock form. Sure they are fun on the track to chase down base model boxsters and camaros...with 250whp you'll be able to chase down gt3rs and c6z's on the right track. I see it every time I go to MSR.
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Old 06-24-2008, 11:48 AM   #11
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I decided to de-turbo my car and go normally aspirated.

Frank
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Old 06-24-2008, 11:57 AM   #12
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I decided to turbo after I lost to a prius off a traffic light. 7.2K RPM shifts and he was pulling away. I felt ashamed. Honda Oddesseys made me quiver.
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Old 06-24-2008, 12:03 PM   #13
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I'm not too concerned about losing to anything on the road when I'm done. Haven't picked up my new motor yet. Should be done next weekend.

Frank
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Old 06-24-2008, 12:28 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faeflora View Post
I decided to turbo after I lost to a prius off a traffic light. 7.2K RPM shifts and he was pulling away. I felt ashamed. Honda Oddesseys made me quiver.
LMAO...

That makes me cry a little inside.
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Old 06-24-2008, 12:29 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fmowry View Post
I decided to de-turbo my car and go normally aspirated.

Frank
detail overload.
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Old 06-24-2008, 02:09 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
detail overload.
Not much of a "decision"
Quote:
Originally Posted by fmowry View Post
Hell at that goal if you can maintain a good tune that's knock free you don't even need to open the motor. I probably got 35K miles on my bone stock '90 1.6 FMII that made 220whp that started with 110K miles and ended at about 145K miles when I jacked the boost up to 16 psi, sprayed a 50 shot, and went lean and shot a rod through the block at the dragstrip. That was with the original FMII Link with a few improvements.

Frank
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Old 06-24-2008, 02:47 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albumleaf View Post
Not much of a "decision"
Wrong car and also 10 years ago. I pulled a perfectly good FM II kit out of my '01 for what's coming out of this car (after new bearings/rings).



Sorry for the total thread hijack.


Frank
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Old 06-24-2008, 04:00 PM   #18
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nice upgrade
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Old 06-24-2008, 04:11 PM   #19
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Turbos make miatas 8% less gay across the board. If you goal is to have a really gay car, I think you should just get a set of "IRTBs", because adding a turbo would definately "ruin" that.
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Old 06-24-2008, 04:32 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faeflora View Post
I decided to turbo after I lost to a prius off a traffic light. 7.2K RPM shifts and he was pulling away. I felt ashamed. Honda Oddesseys made me quiver.
Odysseys are deceptively quick! My dad's '04 Odyssey was faster than a V6 F-body and some ricer in a black Civic.
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