Need to know about LC-1
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Detroit
Posts: 1,234
Total Cats: 0
Need to know about LC-1
I forgot about my tax return coming in, so now I have some wiggle room in my budget. The best way I think to spend it is the LC-1 wideband.
I read EVERY thread on it and I just want to make sure I understand it completely before I buy it. I am speaking of the base $199.99 kit.
First my concern. They talk about watershock causing damage. If I install this in the test pipe location will I need to worry about this?
How does the NB output effect the EMB/Autotune setup? It's unclear to me, does this mean I am able to run the o2 clamp, stock ECU, Emanage AND a gauge off of it? Not sure on this feature.
I've read to install the heat sink, I have a NB gauge to run it to, I will be able to datalog with it and it has open air calibration. So far EVERY thread pointed twords the LC-1, and it seems like the best idea for my budget, so if you guys could just clear up those two things for me it would be awsome! Thanks.
I read EVERY thread on it and I just want to make sure I understand it completely before I buy it. I am speaking of the base $199.99 kit.
First my concern. They talk about watershock causing damage. If I install this in the test pipe location will I need to worry about this?
How does the NB output effect the EMB/Autotune setup? It's unclear to me, does this mean I am able to run the o2 clamp, stock ECU, Emanage AND a gauge off of it? Not sure on this feature.
I've read to install the heat sink, I have a NB gauge to run it to, I will be able to datalog with it and it has open air calibration. So far EVERY thread pointed twords the LC-1, and it seems like the best idea for my budget, so if you guys could just clear up those two things for me it would be awsome! Thanks.
#2
put the LC1 in place of the normal 02 sensor set it up for 1 channel of NB to keep your stock ecu happy and the other of WB for the Emanage dunno if you need an 02 clamp on that. i havent installed mine yet but if you dont have a serial port make sure you get an adapter from radio shack to set it up
via laptop etc.
via laptop etc.
#3
I found that the original o2 sensor bung in the greddy downpipe was too close and caused problems with my LC-1 sensor. Once I moved it further down stream things were better. Running the heatsink/shield may have helped.
You shouldn't have any trouble with the sensor as long as you follow innovate's mounting recomendations.
You shouldn't have any trouble with the sensor as long as you follow innovate's mounting recomendations.
#4
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Detroit
Posts: 1,234
Total Cats: 0
I plan to build a custom downpipe and place the stock o2 sensor where the greddy is and put a bung where the cat used to be for the LC-1. I'm REALLY glad about my refund, now I don't have to visit the dyno thats 40 miles away.
#6
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tucson "it's 110º" Arizona
Posts: 1,017
Total Cats: 0
When I start the car, I turn the key to "on" and the sensor preheats so that water will not damage it. Don't know if the LC-1 is the same.
I do know that you should mount it on top of the exhaust pipe to help minimize the sensor's contact with water, but that's obvious I suppose.
#7
LC-1 has the same heating procedure. I usually turn the key on and wait for the fuel pump to complete pressurizing with the Link too. There's a spec on mounting the sensor - basically can't be horizonal or less (tilted towards point upward). There's plenty of room above the exhaust in the trans tunnel to mount it vertical- that's where mine is.
#9
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Detroit
Posts: 1,234
Total Cats: 0
Thanks for all the replys. Only thing I'm still unclear of is if I will need the o2 clamp/Autotune boxes still? I read somewhere the LC-1 has an Autotune, but I don't think it's the same is it?
#10
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (33)
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: atlanta-ish
Posts: 12,659
Total Cats: 134
you will need everything you already have. the lc-1 replaces nothing except possibly the stock nb sensor itself, but that seems successful only ~50% of the time. I'd put the wb sensor in its own bung and run it completely independent of any other electronics, as you don't have an ecu that is capable of doing anything with its output.
Hmm.. BUT does your EMB have an additional analog input that you could use to be able to input the wb analog signal for datalogging? that way you could see all the parameters on the same chart.
Hmm.. BUT does your EMB have an additional analog input that you could use to be able to input the wb analog signal for datalogging? that way you could see all the parameters on the same chart.
#12
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Detroit
Posts: 1,234
Total Cats: 0
Sorry to be so lame, but how would I check for the extra input? I think it can, as I remember reading a post about datalogging with the WB and how much better it was than having to glance at the gauge while logging.
Thanks Ben for the info, I was really curious about those.
Thanks Ben for the info, I was really curious about those.
#14
Why would he have issues using the LC1 as a replacement for his stock o2? It can output in analog and replace it 100%, and actually provide an accurate "narrowband".
If the EMB logs factory o2, he can splice his line into the incoming o2 sensor input and should be set. The LC1 can have its analog settings setup to output within narrowband voltages.
Personally, I just tune the car and never turn o2 corrects back on... but with my honda stuff, I just bring the wideband o2 data in through the stock o2 wiring so I can datalog it through the ECU along with the factory parameters.
If the EMB logs factory o2, he can splice his line into the incoming o2 sensor input and should be set. The LC1 can have its analog settings setup to output within narrowband voltages.
Personally, I just tune the car and never turn o2 corrects back on... but with my honda stuff, I just bring the wideband o2 data in through the stock o2 wiring so I can datalog it through the ECU along with the factory parameters.
#15
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (33)
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: atlanta-ish
Posts: 12,659
Total Cats: 134
You also run into the situation that the factory NB lives close to the turbine, and the WB needs a new location closer to the cat. Also, a NB is more accurate at gas stoich than a WB is.
If the EMB logs factory o2, he can splice his line into the incoming o2 sensor input and should be set. The LC1 can have its analog settings setup to output within narrowband voltages.
#16
Sorry to be so lame, but how would I check for the extra input? I think it can, as I remember reading a post about datalogging with the WB and how much better it was than having to glance at the gauge while logging.
Thanks Ben for the info, I was really curious about those.
Thanks Ben for the info, I was really curious about those.
According to post #5 of thread: "I use my lc-1's feedback to the tps wire on my emanage...then I get rpm scaling for tuning during logging."
https://www.miataturbo.net/forums/sh...ht=O2+wideband
According to post #2 of thread: "It should be 0-5V. You could use the TPS or MAF(if you weren't using the MAF for anything else) You'd have to reset the TPS to 0-5V -- or just setup the TPS as normal, then disconnect the TPS from the car and just feed the wire from the WBO2 into the unit."
https://www.miataturbo.net/forums/sh...ht=O2+wideband
#17
There was a theory that you could enable the second MAF on the EMB, add an additional pin the harness and read 0-5V from the WB. There was a thread on how to do it on some Toyota Celica forum. I know someone here tested it.
Ha found it, I never throw away anything
http://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?t=187913
Ha found it, I never throw away anything
http://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?t=187913
#19
Feed the NB sim to the ECU as you may get a little better gas milage when not in boost, some people with other cars have experienced this as did I when I ran my LC-1 that way.
Feed the WB into autotune and a gauge if you like to monitor.
As long as the o2 sensor is installed in such a way that water will not pool (e.g. at the top of the exhaust tube facing the sky instead of horizontal or below, condensation/water damage is a non-issue.
As long as the LC-1 is about 10-12 inches away from the turbo you should not need a heatsink. If it's in the DP right by the turbo, then yes, add a heat sink.
As for WB logging in EMB, you can not use the TPS input as you will need this for autotune, but using the emanage alpha tool (search the dedicated emanage forums), you can input and log the WB into the AFM2 input, however, you will only be able to log and view this with the alpha tool and not with the usual emanage tool.
Feed the WB into autotune and a gauge if you like to monitor.
As long as the o2 sensor is installed in such a way that water will not pool (e.g. at the top of the exhaust tube facing the sky instead of horizontal or below, condensation/water damage is a non-issue.
As long as the LC-1 is about 10-12 inches away from the turbo you should not need a heatsink. If it's in the DP right by the turbo, then yes, add a heat sink.
As for WB logging in EMB, you can not use the TPS input as you will need this for autotune, but using the emanage alpha tool (search the dedicated emanage forums), you can input and log the WB into the AFM2 input, however, you will only be able to log and view this with the alpha tool and not with the usual emanage tool.
#20
With the autotune, you can either feed it the WB signal, or the NB.
Personally, I would put the WB in a second bung, then feed the signal into the Air Flow Metre II input. I've already tried this, and it was working -- sort of with the NB....
If you get the latest version of the Emanage Tools software (there was a thread in the emanage forum).... you can use that to read the AFM-II input, and use that against the RPM, and other stuff to tune accordingly.....
Dave,
Personally, I would put the WB in a second bung, then feed the signal into the Air Flow Metre II input. I've already tried this, and it was working -- sort of with the NB....
If you get the latest version of the Emanage Tools software (there was a thread in the emanage forum).... you can use that to read the AFM-II input, and use that against the RPM, and other stuff to tune accordingly.....
Dave,