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Old 03-18-2007, 07:50 PM   #1
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Default Is there a 220hp S/C for miata?

Is there a s/c that can put out 220hp? or a little more? I havent really seen any superchargers break the 200 hp mark but I could be mistaken
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Old 03-18-2007, 07:59 PM   #2
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Yup.
The MOAB.
Stephanie
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Old 03-18-2007, 08:05 PM   #3
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whats the ''mother of all blowers'' good for.any dyno sheets.

i heard some good news about it.
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Old 03-18-2007, 08:08 PM   #4
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i am interested in it... i dont htink i'd go above 240 hp so I am looking into maybe a SC.. but everyone (since this is a turbo forum) prefers the turbo
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Old 03-18-2007, 08:29 PM   #5
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can someone link me to the moab
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Old 03-18-2007, 08:45 PM   #6
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bellengineering.net
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Old 03-18-2007, 10:27 PM   #7
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The MP62 can flow ~500cfm of air, has been taken up to ~340rwhp on a Miata and ~325rwhp on an S2000.

The 1.2L Whipple used in the MOAB/Uber is bigger and flows even more air, although I don't think anyone's taken it much beyond ~300rwhp in a Miata.
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Old 03-18-2007, 11:00 PM   #8
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yeah i wouldnt imagine taking HP up that high... is the SC an easier install and easier to maintain?


i assume it would, but I am just double checking
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Old 03-19-2007, 02:11 AM   #9
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In order of my familiarity, there's the MP62 hotside, the MP62 coldside and of course the MOAB.

My hotside without an AA IC is running around 207HP. The person to talk to about the hotside is Gary @ TDR - www.trackdogracing.com.

The only person that sells MP62 coldside is Tom @ FFS - www.fastforwardsuperchargers.com. He is getting around 190~220HP depending on the pulley and the fuel you use. His coldside is also the only SC that has a CARB EO# if that's at all important to you.

The MOAB is as mentioned above is sold by BEGI. I don't know if it's being currently being sold to the public yet. You should probably give them a call and ask (Stephanie or someone else at BEGI).

As of right this minute, FFS is the only one that is shipping SC kits. Moss is supposed to be releasing their "new" MP62 Hotside kit soon. As as it is released, FFS as well as TDR will be selling it as well. Though FFS will be adding their own version of the hotside which includes a 6 rib auto-tensioner.
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Old 03-19-2007, 08:53 AM   #10
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Depends on what you want for 220 hp? You want 220 at the wheels or flywheel? What car is this going on? Motor makes a difference.....

M45 the littlest blower will only get you to 200 at the wheels -- but that's with so many mods, it's not worth it..... But until they release an MP62 for it, it's the only choice for a 1.6 motor car (unless you swap in a 1.8 first).

Start with an MP62....

Fastforward has the CS (and a hotside on the way). The CS is great to drive.... it's like NA throttle respose, but a lot of it. You can probably squeak 210ish at the wheels out of it, however, depends on the pulleys, and in some cases the head.... They are coming out with the Hotside.... which will be able to go past that for sure.

BRP = StageOne Tuning .... They currently have the upgraded 6-rib hotsides, from which my kit was the "originator". I have the older 4-rib belt design which runs off the PS / AC belt. THe newer kits (yes all the FFS ones too) are all 6-rib belts, which is from an additional crank pully. Makes a big difference .... well worth it to have. Currently I believe James has stock/products to sell, but if you are interested, give him a ring.

Now to these are similar products (especially the hotsides) so... you will have to choose which company to go with for yourself. BRP /SoT has always treated me fairly.... and well, so I made the choice to stay with them.... I know others have had negative experiences.... Tom's a nice guy to talk to.... but I haven't purchased anything through him yet.....

For either of the Hotsides, if you are looking @ something for the track... get the TDR IC... unless you are going to make an Air to Air yourself, it's pretty much the only thing that's really good at helping with the heat-soak. Some guys even need to add a little water to help keep the rotors in the blower cool on the track...... (@ 14 or 16 PSI though).

The MOAB is available.... but I don't think a lot of people are running it. It's the larger blower, but not a roots style. The issue I had (which I don't know if the MOAB fixed over the Uber) was the pipe routing.... it put clamps in the most annoying places..... That said, I haven't looked into this kit in detail.

ALso just as a "goal".... there's a local guy with a 90 with a 1.8 in it, and a full link.... he's pushing 240 to 260 @ the wheels.... on a BRP 6-rib, hotside....

Dave
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Old 03-19-2007, 11:34 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelrat View Post
Depends on what you want for 220 hp? You want 220 at the wheels or flywheel? What car is this going on? Motor makes a difference.....

M45 the littlest blower will only get you to 200 at the wheels -- but that's with so many mods, it's not worth it..... But until they release an MP62 for it, it's the only choice for a 1.6 motor car (unless you swap in a 1.8 first).

Start with an MP62....

Fastforward has the CS (and a hotside on the way). The CS is great to drive.... it's like NA throttle respose, but a lot of it. You can probably squeak 210ish at the wheels out of it, however, depends on the pulleys, and in some cases the head.... They are coming out with the Hotside.... which will be able to go past that for sure.

BRP = StageOne Tuning .... They currently have the upgraded 6-rib hotsides, from which my kit was the "originator". I have the older 4-rib belt design which runs off the PS / AC belt. THe newer kits (yes all the FFS ones too) are all 6-rib belts, which is from an additional crank pully. Makes a big difference .... well worth it to have. Currently I believe James has stock/products to sell, but if you are interested, give him a ring.

Now to these are similar products (especially the hotsides) so... you will have to choose which company to go with for yourself. BRP /SoT has always treated me fairly.... and well, so I made the choice to stay with them.... I know others have had negative experiences.... Tom's a nice guy to talk to.... but I haven't purchased anything through him yet.....

For either of the Hotsides, if you are looking @ something for the track... get the TDR IC... unless you are going to make an Air to Air yourself, it's pretty much the only thing that's really good at helping with the heat-soak. Some guys even need to add a little water to help keep the rotors in the blower cool on the track...... (@ 14 or 16 PSI though).

The MOAB is available.... but I don't think a lot of people are running it. It's the larger blower, but not a roots style. The issue I had (which I don't know if the MOAB fixed over the Uber) was the pipe routing.... it put clamps in the most annoying places..... That said, I haven't looked into this kit in detail.

ALso just as a "goal".... there's a local guy with a 90 with a 1.8 in it, and a full link.... he's pushing 240 to 260 @ the wheels.... on a BRP 6-rib, hotside....

Dave
I think we all assume this is 220HP at the wheel.

Also, I didn't realize the MOAB was released to the public yet.
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Old 03-20-2007, 12:25 AM   #12
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what are the advantages of having a Hotside SC when compared to a Coldside SC

sorry for these nub questions but you have to start learning from somewhere (plus I know a little more about turbos than SC, not much though)
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Old 03-20-2007, 12:32 AM   #13
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You can intercool the hotside with an air-air IC, whereas the coldside mounts directly onto the intake manifold.

I think.
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Old 03-20-2007, 01:11 AM   #14
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yeah but is there any power differnce between a HS SC with IC, and a CS SC
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Old 03-20-2007, 10:20 AM   #15
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Yes, because the hotsides typically use the stock intake manifold, they'll typically have greater mid-range torque than the coldsides (because the coldside has less throttled volume and shorter runners), but the torque will also taper off more quickly toward redline.
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Old 03-20-2007, 10:48 AM   #16
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Most blowers for the miata, are roots style.... so the TB is moved to the "front" of the blower.

On a hotside, that means, that your TB is on the drivers side of the engine mounted over the exhaust header. So your "intake volume" increases... so you loose some throttle response, but it's just something to get used to.

A CS is mounted "where" the intake manifold is (replacing it). so you have blower, manifold->head ... you have stock throttle volume or less, and it's like lightning to change the throttle response.... plus it's builds boost almost instantly.....

That said, the biggest issue with a CS is cooling. You can't really use a/a without loosing the advantages of a CS.... you can use water injection, but that's only to a point.... So ultimate power is limited (but it does work more efficently too). So normally, you get more power at the beginning with a larger pulley (less boost).

The hotside, can run either a/a or a/w for intercooling.... and it will help reduce the charge temp, which of course, is always good. So you will eventually be able to run more boost than a CS.....

It all comes down to what do you want. If you want moderate power levels, but stupid response, go CS. If you want "big" power.... go hotside.....

Dave,
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Old 03-20-2007, 12:09 PM   #17
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The MOAB is a/a intercooled.
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Old 03-20-2007, 12:28 PM   #18
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What Brian and Steelrat said is true.

Between my HS and the FFS CS, the difference is amazing in terms of driveability. Whereas my HS is loud, obnoxious and just plain raw, the CS on both the FFS 99 and the 2005 is completely civilized. The 05 that was used to pass CARB is so oem-like in driveability that you'd almost never realize that it wasn't SCed from the factory.*

I personally do not listen to the radio when I drive as I like to hear my exhaust and the SC whine. Tom however actually likes to have a conversation and listen to satellite radio when he drives. So, he left the exhaust stock on the 05 and with the radio on, you can just barely hear the SC whine.

*When I bought my BRP 6 rib hotside, it was advertised as close to OEM like driveability. That was complete and utter bullshit. There is no way I could describe my HS back then as anywhere near stock-like driveability. Today, with all the mods I've added to that base HS, the driveability is better than when I first got my SC. But, I still would not say the HS drives anywhere near OEM.

You should really test drive a MP62 HS and CS if you can. FWIW, with an open diff, and Falken Azenis, I can barely keep the tires from spinning with 200+HP.
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Old 03-20-2007, 01:21 PM   #19
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Quote:
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The MOAB is a/a intercooled.
The Uber was too, but it's not a CS really. If you look at the piping, it's almost as long or longer than the ones used with a hotside blower + TDR..... So it doesn't offer the same benefits like the true CS does.

I've driven a CS.... Tom's 10AE at the gap, actually. Even after 20mins, it was unbelievable the difference. I admit, it was running more boost than my car, and it was also working on a motor, that wasn't blowing 1L of oil/1000km, but still.... The throttle response was nuts.... it was so touch-y... I couldn't believe it. Completely different than the HS.

Now that said, I have found my HS to work well, and I have zero complaints about it. The original 4-rib has been working well for me.... even if it is only 7psi. The EM Blue upgrade was great for me, since I was able to add the O2 clamp with the autotune (that was something I should have done a long time before).... but even with the PC + Bipes, it was good. I haven't been plagued with the idle dip like others, etc....

I do have one weird idle issue, but I think that's from a dying IAC again.... it idles rock solid from a drive, but sitting at the lights, it will idle dip.... Adjusting the idle screw on ten/grd helped... so I'll probably just have to look at it again in spring.

But it's like apples and oranges.... you need to really drive both.... and see what you like. The CS is quick, and feels like stock on steriods.... but the HS will give you more "potential" for stupid numbers down the road if that's what you want. Originally, I was thinkin' about a CS upgrade, but that was before the FFS/BRP split.... Since then, I've decided, that I really can't do that without almost starting over, so instead, I'm going to do a TDR, and just keep the boost where it is, or a little higher..... but I'll be able to play all day long on the track with that..... That to me is more important..........

Oh boy, I can't wait for boost.... this winter thing is really starting to suck.

Dave,
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Old 03-20-2007, 02:05 PM   #20
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[QUOTE=steelrat;94419]The Uber was too, but it's not a CS really. If you look at the piping, it's almost as long or longer than the ones used with a hotside blower + TDR..... So it doesn't offer the same benefits like the true CS does.

So we can say the MOAB and Uber are CS W/IC. Becuse it is on the CS and you don't have the heat from the exhaust, heating up the Supercharger like on the HS. (Even how little of an affect that might have)
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