wred

iTrader: (1)

Just to give you some context: I'm 35, single, no kids, and live by myself in a small apartment I split with my very generous parents (more on this later). In addition to my NA turbo miata I drive an 04 prius, which is my daily. I make enough to save a few hundred/mo and have a few grand in savings/investments, but I make a very modest living.

Every few years I have a mild-to-moderate depressive episode. This one, which has been going on for about 6 months now, has been particularly bad. Ironically (or predictably), I'm a mental health counselor, so I have some insight into my mental health problems. I know the episode will eventually go away, and I am managing the symptoms okay in the meantime. However, I'm not sure if the idea of selling my miata is among those symptoms.

I used to love the miata. In addition to the off-the-shelf bolt-ons, I spent countless hours on custom projects (v-mount intercooler, digital dash, gauge cluster, MS build, etc), and really enjoyed the process. The miata followed a project I deeply regret abandoning long ago (Subaru WRC widebody replica), and I'm afraid I'll regret abandoning this one as well. But as of right now, I hardly touch the miata. It runs, but not well, and I'm not motivated to spend the time and money to fix the current issues (noisy tires, tweaked suspension, broken wipers, dying battery, peeling paint). It's taking up the only space I have in my shared 2 car garage, which means I have to walk ~7 minutes to get to where my prius is normally parked on the street.

The way I see it, there's the optimistic perspective, and the pessimistic perspective:
Optimistic perspective: I don't value the miata right now because I feel depressed. In a year I'll be sitting for my licensure exam (my profession requires me to obtain 3000 hours of post-graduate work experience before licensure, kind of like residency for doctors), after which my income will literally double (well it won't actually be double because of taxes, but you get the point). Hopefully the extra income, perceived elevated status in the field, and being financially independent will help me feel better and give me some motivation to start working on and driving the miata again. Plus I've invested so much time and effort in the car that it is worth much more to me than I could ever hope to get from selling it.

Pessimistic (realistic?) perspective: earlier I mentioned that my parents split my rent with me. They offered to do this until I get my license in about a year. However, I feel guilty for accepting their help. My parents don't struggle financially but if I sold the miata I could start paying the full rent amount much sooner. Also, the miata is just a material object. People talk about valuing objects less and experiences/relationships more as they age, and I can relate with both... well actually, with just the first statement. Anyway there's no guarantee my interest in the miata will return, and planning for that remote possibility is irresponsible. Even if it does, what if I get into an accident? What if the miata gets stolen? What if it breaks down? I certainly wouldn't want to start over. Also, what is the point? I keep saying I'll take it to the track but I've done that 3x in the past 10 years. At best I'll have a car that's "fast" and "custom." What is the value in that?

I know as well as anyone else that the appropriate response is "only you know what's best for you," etc. But I'm more interested in hearing your experiences. Have you taken a step away from project cars before and come back? Did you regret it? What purpose do cars have for you (aside from transportation, obviously)? Has their value or role in your life changed as you got older?

sonofthehill

iTrader: (1)

Interesting post.
As far as being depressed, remember that if you are unhappy or in pain, or suffering, ect... Experience those experiences, in reality the alternative is to be dead. Then you don't get to experience any experiences anymore, if you've had any real brushes with death you will understand. Hopefully you are not projecting clients/(patients?) problems on to yourself.
On the rent thing. Sounds like this makes your parents happy, so don't feel bad, they want to do this and might accelerate your mortgage or something similar in the future. Because it makes them happy.
As far as the car, go drive it and you will remember what the value is in having a fast custom car, or not.

I moved to Boston when I was probably about your age, because my wife took a job there. I sold all my cool cars, and a bunch of cool rotary stuff. Then froze my **** off for 4 long winters, eff that. But now, I have a better Miata than my last one, and it's way faster than any rotary I have ever experienced. I don't get to drive it as much as I'd like but better than not having it.
However, you can always buy another Miata in the future.
I have always had a hobby car to wrench on since I was able to drive, so I still want one. And no way I would be putting some Prius in my Miata's parking spot. Prius'...

But hey, that's just me. Good luck with whatever you choose.

sonofthehill

iTrader: (1)

Also good points about getting in an accident stolen. My answer is that we shouldn't look at these cars as investments, they are toys that could be gone instantly. I mean especially if you drive in SF, so many terrible drivers ready to smash your sweet ride.

wred

iTrader: (1)

Thank you for your input. In regards to your comment about my clients, I am actually very comfortable dealing with other peoples' problems and can detach without much difficulty; it's my own problems that get to me. I do have to reduce my work hours during times like this, but the hours I cut are for group therapy, where the patients are not assigned to me specifically and the therapists routinely swap places.

I liked what you said about experiencing experiences and these cars being toys. I get into the habit of thinking about possessions, relationships, jobs, experiences, etc instrumentally. Like how do these things benefit me? vs just enjoying them/valuing them for what they are. I also noticed that when I get down like this I start thinking of the miata as less of a toy and more of a liability. After all, as soon as I stop enjoying it, as soon as I stop playing with it, it's no longer serving its purpose. Instead I focus on the things that can go wrong with it. Also, one thing I neglected to mention is the prices... my god the prices give me so much anxiety. When I started modding my car, hardtops were $800 and NA8 JDM engines were $700. My car itself was $1300, in above-average shape. I got into this scene in part because I felt comfortable treating the car as disposable. Now it feels like a delicate art piece and that reinforces the urge to sell it.

wred

iTrader: (1)

By the way, it sounds like you had quite a bit of downtime when you didn't have any ongoing projects at all. How was that experience like for you? Did you feel like something was missing? If so, how would you describe what was missing?

sixshooter

iTrader: (12)

You have some stress and some reasons to be a little down but I don't believe selling the car will flip some switch that will make you feel better. Therefore selling it accomplishes nothing of real value.

Thoughts of things that may actually be useful:
-Are you suffering seasonal affective disorder?
-Are you diabetic? 48 percent of diabetics suffer some depression.
-Are you on statin drugs for cholesterol?
-Have you taken a lot of antibiotics in the last few years? Antibiotics kill beneficial gut bacteria that directly effect your mood.
-Do you drink a lot of sodas? Preservatives in sodas kill gut bacteria just like they kill bacteria in cans or bottles.
-Do you consume artificial sweeteners? They cause insulin resistance in your gut bacteria and promote weight gain and type 2 diabetes (2014 Israeli study by researchers at The Weitzman Institute).
-Do you have metabolic flexibility? Are you able to go in and out of ketosis (switch from using carbs for energy to using fats for energy) seamlessly or do you get weak or tired if you miss a meal?

There are many other possible factors but I'm out of time right now. I hope something helps.

der_vierte

This.
My parents in law lent us 10k$ to help buy our piece of ground, so we could get a loan for a house.
I didn't feel comfortable back then and wanted to give it back ASAP, but they are somewhat "whealthy" (me, I'm not and my own family isn't as well)
and they really just wanted to help us out and it makes them happy to see us having our own house now and stuff like that. I think your parents really don't care as much as you do, because they love you.
To this day, we owe them those 10k and I know I will pay it back some day, but not now or in the near future (cause I would have to sell my Miata ) - and they're fine with it.

I'm not a doctor, but I don't think your problems are money or object related. I'm 32 now and you are right, that relationships get more and more important to me, but my own passion for certain things is unbroken and maybe you are lacking some of that right now. I know it would pull me down BIG TIME.
Maybe your passion isn't the Miata or cars in general anymore and that's fine, but do find something else.

I pity everyone in the world, who doesn't "burn" for something, because the opportunities out there are nearly unlimited.

hornetball

iTrader: (4)

For me, DD a Miata is a huge mood lifter. It melts daily stress away (I have a fairly traffic-free commute). I used to DD my '90 Turbo. Now I DD a 2020. Best Miata ever and I felt like I owed Mazda for supporting my mental health all these years.

My daughter is recently married and graduates with a pharmacy doctorate this May. They live in a house I own and I still pay her expenses. I don't give that a second thought (May is coming!). I can understand your desire to be truly independent though. I think that affects you more than it does your parents. Your parents just want you to be happy.

You already know this, but you should avoid making big changes during an episode. Also, exercise more. Morning jogs are a lifesaver for me. Really clears the head.

Icedawg

People move on. Perhaps your interest in project cars really has waned, and getting out makes sense. The limited project time you have put in over the past few years suggests that.

Personally, I would await a positive mood swing before making the decision. You seem confident the current episode you are in will end.
But, if your interest remains low when you get there, then look at a sale.
In the mean time, I imagine this is not really the change you are looking for to improve your mood.

Best wishes in challenging times.

Dr.Sep

Hey! Licensed Psychologist (literally just sat for my exam in December 22 and NYS took until February 2nd to grand licensure) but the whole purpose of me posting is to just say HANG IN THERE, I know how arduous the path is, but truly just keep plugging along you will pass and it will be huge weight off your chest and life after the exam is pretty cool too

dont make quick decisions and some words of advice "don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things"
you got this duder

Panici

Absolutely for me as well. I've had a rough go of it the last few years and having the miata to just go for a drive has been huge. And the projects are a great distraction.

OP, does the car bring you joy?
If yes then keep it, because you will definitely regret selling it.

Fireindc

iTrader: (13)

My Miata was my first car and I'll never sell it, it was my Mom's before that, so it's a bit of a family heirloom. Mine always lifts my mood, working on it, driving it, racing it, etc. It's a bit of an obsession.

Without the above reasons, it's just a car and perhaps you should sell it. Once you are making decent money you can buy something way nicer down the line, even if it's another miata. Deals come up all the time on cars built way nicer than mine, for way less than I have invested, so it's not like you can't get another one if you choose down the line.

IMO you should focus on you. Diet, exercise, find a hobby that you love (apparently cars isn't it).

Gee Emm

Lot of good advice here, but you need to do you. But advice is free, so listen, consider and them make your own way.

Totally agree on the morning walk/jog/whatever, and the benefits of having/doing something that makes you smile.

Finally, our parents do stuff for us when/where they can - for love (of us). Accept that, and know that accepting being loved can be harder than it sounds sometimes.

wred

iTrader: (1)

Sixshooter: Interesting you ask about my health. No, I don't suffer from SAD, and I'm not diabetic. The only meds I take are Tylenol and Aspirin (for migraines). Used to take them once a month, but recently the migraines have been worse, so that's increased to ~once a week. I consume very little sweet food or drink, artificial or otherwise. I am not sure about the ketosis question... IIRC the right way to test that is with a ph-like strip, isn't it? I can tell you missing meals is no problem for me. Remembering to eat is often a purely cognitive act for me; I rarely experience the classic feelings of hunger in the stomach.

My diet is healthier than average, I would say, but not perfect. For 2-4 meals/wk I'll eat hospital food which is often not very healthy (orange chicken, burgers, hot dogs, that sort of thing). 80% of the time I'm eating ground turkey, onions, tomatoes, canned black beans, green beans, sunflower seeds, white rice, and sometimes eggs. I tend to undereat so I also add olive oil to add some calories. I am 5' 11" usually around 170 lbs, but recently 160 so I don't at least appear to be unhealthy. Been inactive in the past 2 months but before I'd lift weights 2-4x/wk. Very little cardio, which I know is a problem.

I'm glad you brought up feeling weak or tired because that's something I neglected to mention. I have chronic fatigue, to the point where if a drive exceeds 45 mins, at any time of the day, regardless of how much sleep I've had, I have to plan to pull over and nap because I will start to nod off. I've gotten blood test after blood test to check for hypothyroidism, anemia, low testosterone, etc and they found possible signs of early kidney failure (slightly high creatinin) but the results were inconclusive and the high creatinin went away after I switched doctors so this one does not see a need for me to see a nephrologist.

dleavitt

iTrader: (1)

It doesn't sound like you are in an emergency financial situation, so I'd be inclined to keep the car until you are in a better frame of mind to make a decision.

I will tell you that selling a turbocharged Miata is no fun. Less because I regret doing it, and more because a lot of the potential buyers are morons. Fortunately I had the ability to be patient and found a good buyer. Didn't get everything I wanted, but overall a fair transaction. However, it isn't something that will do your mental health any good.

wred

iTrader: (1)

der vierte:
Thank you for sharing your experiences. I hate relying on other people, partially because I've fallen on my face when they've withdrawn their help, but partially because I just don't want to be a burden. It's a pride thing. And my parents helping my out with rent is the only area of life in which I'm still dependent on others. Last time I moved, for example, I only asked two people for help: one to help me load, and one to help me unload, so I could take up as little of their time as possible.

I know you don't know them but you're right... my parents really do love me. Last time I saw my dad he asked me what I thought of him as a parent and if there's anything he could do better. LIke, my god... what parent does that? Somehow that makes it even more difficult to take his money.

As far as the passion thing goes, I wholeheartedly agree. It's good to care about things. I've noticed though that as my mental health worsens, my "passions" shift towards more passive and reclusive activities, things that keep me indoors and isolated from people. Like right now I'm buried neck deep in the "personal knowledge management" world, a fancy term for notetaking. I'm using apps like Obsidian and Logseq to capture and organize my ideas about mental health to hypothetically improve as a therapist, but in reality I just tweak my setup the same way I tweak the miata, rarely actually using it.

Cars used to be more of a social thing for me. Car meets, install days, etc helped me meet and stay in touch with people who are all now married, with kids, etc or just not interested in cars anymore. Part of me feels like I'm chasing the dreams and nostalgia of my 20s when in reality my 20s sucked *** haha.

wred

iTrader: (1)

hornetball:
Part of the problem with the miata is that it doesn't run well. I think I enjoyed it more when it was less "racecar" and a little quieter and more comfortable. I think if I fixed its relatively minor issues I would enjoy it a lot more. I don't know if any current friends would be willing to do HPDE days or anything, but I could always meet people there.

Your daughter is very lucky. She sounds like she has a great head on her shoulders. I hope she appreciates your generosity to the extent that you deserve.

I have such a hard time finding the sweet spot for exercise. 2 years ago I ran 15 min/day (HIIT, so 3 min of that was sprinting, the rest jogging), 5 days/wk for 4 weeks and it absolutely killed me. I felt even more tired than usual, I got cramps and even felt sick at some points. Since then when I actually do cardio I just walk. Even jogging causes problems for me. In hindsight though, I should have probably learned how to ramp up the intensity instead of flying out the gate.

wred

iTrader: (1)

Dr.Sep: Congratulations! I hear the psychology licensure exam is way harder, so I hope you feel proud of your accomplishment. And thank you for your words of encouragement!

I really wish I could respond to you all individually but duty calls. I appreciate all of the feedback. It's nice to put my thoughts out there among people I know will understand. I feel like anyone outside the car community would just dismiss the value of the car immediately. As a few of you have stated, I'm inclined to keep it at least until I'm in a better state of mind.

Kboi12

When I was 18 years old my mother gifted me a brand new WRX. My spoiled *** put like 20k into turning that into one awesome track car. Long story short my mother and I had a fall out, I parted out the car, sold it, gave her the money and got a E46 330i. I drove that car for a few years, thought I was done with all that car stuff once I got engaged and stuff. Well, I was not. I missed it and was looking into getting a Miata again(miata was my first car). My mother and I worked on things and ironically she found me a 10,000 mile NA. I ended up buying it and getting back into it. I honestly regretted selling my Subaru. That was an awesome car, lots of time and money was wasted. But after owning the Miata for 3 years I love where it has come. I live and breath cars now, id be depressed without them. Those few years where I had nothing to work on I was pretty bored, watched a lot of TV and played video games, the bank account racked up money though haha.

To answer your question, I'd keep it

sonofthehill

iTrader: (1)

We didn't have a garage in Boston, and I wasn't bringing any nice cars to get all rusty. I did have a workshop, but you couldn't get a car in there. I went back to bicycles, which I used to wrench on before I could drive. Bikes made more sense in Boston and I could commute to work and park easily. I also made furniture and worked on our condo. I have always found creative projects soothing and enjoyable.