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Old 09-03-2008, 04:20 PM   #1
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Default Webcam 505 & Greddy Turbo

Hi all

I've recently fitted a set of Webcam 505 'mild' cams to my 1990 1.6 and dialed them in with a pair of Fidaza cam gears. I was all set to fit a link ecu to tune the set up when I was offered a great deal on a greddy turbo kit. I found this quote from Randy Stocker of solomiata;

Quote:
Read http://www.solomiata.com/cams.html

With a turbo motor you want to keep overlap to a minimum -- like 4-8 degrees. You can use all the lift you want though ( aftermarket valve springs a must). All the aftermarket camshafts for the Miata are NA based (big duration and overlap) so you will have to get custom grinds or use adjustable cam gears for something close. I recommend webcam 505 or the 99-00 OEM cams as they are nearly perfect for a turbo motor (with adjustable sprockets to dial out overlap)

Randy
If I go with the turbo are there any potential pitfalls they I need to look out for and would my Link ECU be able to manage the cams and the turbo.

Thanks
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Old 09-03-2008, 04:37 PM   #2
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You will be fine.. The Web 505 is a great cam for a Turbo car. The link will help you tune your fuel just right!
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Old 09-03-2008, 05:34 PM   #3
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At this time, I think it's probably pretty easy to make a case to avoid getting a Link, but you will love the cams. Adjust them to minimize overlap but watch your EGT (get a pyrometer if you don't have one).
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Old 09-15-2008, 09:31 AM   #4
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So I've had the turbo fitted with a Begi adjustable AFPR taking care of the fueling. Only gauge I have is a boost/vacuum gauge and I've decided to sell the Link. Timing is currently retarded to 8 degrees and it is running 6psi

My impressions are as follows;

- The cams are very agressive in their current configuration. Idle is very lumpy and driveability is not great from start up. Once warm they settle down, but the car resembles a racing car in character. I'm not sure what effect the 8 degree retardation is having on the cams so the hope is they will calm down with better a fueling/timing solution

- Off boost, the car is noticeably quicker with pick up from about 2k rpm and boost from about 3.5k. When boosting the car is seriously quick and pulls strongly to about 7k. The car is now faster than my reactions time in changing gears.

I guess I now have the power bug, but I have no intererest in higher boost levels at this stage, I'm more interested in making sure that the power I have is safe and reliable and if there are any upgrades that I should be considering.

- Oil pressure and coolant temperatures are fine
- It is running on the Greddy/OEM downpipe and Borla 2.25" cat back
- 8lb Toda flywheel
- 1.8 Torsen diff
- Toyo R888 195/50 tyres (GG compound)

Any advice for safe running would be greatly appreciated

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Old 09-15-2008, 10:20 AM   #5
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I thought you had a LINK? Get some form of engine management and get a 2.5" Downpipe and Exhaust. Your car will rock!
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Old 09-15-2008, 09:18 PM   #6
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8 degrees is pushing it with no intercooler, unless you have some higher octane gas in London.

And, you spent too much money for a road tune. To tune the AFPR, all you need is a calculator and fuel pressure gauge.

Chris
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Old 11-11-2008, 07:15 AM   #7
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Since my last update I've installed an FM link ecu with a map sensor, knock sensorand, IAT sensor and RX-7 550cc injectors. The purchase included a boost control solenoid and an Lc-1 WB02, both yet to be fitted.

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w...mapreading.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w...mapreading.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w...mapreading.jpg

The map was done on a brief drive of about 10 minutes or so, studying the data yesterday some of the areas that I highlighted include;

- Peak turbo boost of 5.7 psi at about 4.5k
- Lean peak of 22.19 occured at a point of high vacuum, zero throttle
- AFR at mild boost under target with a low of 10.97 at approximatel 5700 rpms
- Insignificant knock events, although it registered at near peak rpms
- RX-7 550cc injectors peaked at under 30% duty cycle (perhaps they are overkill at this level)
- Map readings seem high

Running off the stock NB o2 and the boost defaults of 6psi set when the greddy was fitted.

Have any of you noticed any areas for concern?

Thanks once again for your help and guidance.
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Old 11-11-2008, 09:32 AM   #8
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why does a MAP of 140 seems high?
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Old 11-11-2008, 12:08 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
why does a MAP of 140 seems high?
My idle map reading tends to oscillate between 55 and 60, this figure does drop down to as low as 28 - I just thought the overall reading was on the high side.

Apart from that is their any cause for concern that is glaringly obvious or does the map seem ok for my set up.

Thanks
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Old 11-11-2008, 12:26 PM   #10
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If i understand correctly, you won't ever be pulling as much vacuum at idle with cams.
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Old 12-16-2008, 11:33 AM   #11
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Back to the top on this idle map issue. The car is currently set up with the Lc-1 and is limited to 6psi for now. AFR's are fine in boost (12.3 at 140kpa) however, the issue of the high idle map remains a concern. Ignition advance is also low at idle, about 4/5 compared to 16-20 when the car is actually moving. Given that the link's ignition numbers are divisible by 4 the car is peaking no higher that a true ignition peak of about 7 bdtc - no knock events recorded.

Jeremy at FM had a look at a datalog and commented on the high idle and attributed it in part to the cams/cam gears. He surmised that there may be too much overlap in the cams for the turbo application and, although the timing is conservative, he cautioned against too much ignition advance due to the cams.

My understanding was that the Wecam 505 are 'mild' so I'm puzzled at the characteristics that it is exhibiting after a short time installed. I guess a pyrometer/EGT gauge will help in monitoring EGT, or am I better off re-installing the stock 1.6 cams.

Any advice/tips would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 12-16-2008, 12:09 PM   #12
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if it were me, I'd throw on the stock cams and up the boost to 10 or 11psi. Let the link take care of everything.
I've a very similar setup (are you intercooled too?) for the last 5 years and it rocks ;-) I've 370cc injectors (RC 440s waiting to go in) and I've been running 10/11psi all that time.
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Old 12-16-2008, 01:18 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevo11 View Post
if it were me, I'd throw on the stock cams and up the boost to 10 or 11psi. Let the link take care of everything.
I've a very similar setup (are you intercooled too?) for the last 5 years and it rocks ;-) I've 370cc injectors (RC 440s waiting to go in) and I've been running 10/11psi all that time.

what does that solve?
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Old 12-16-2008, 01:35 PM   #14
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Not sure what you are referring to?

If you are referring to my pending larger injector install, it'll solve my injector duty cycle issue and let me increase the boost to 12psi, it also demonstrates that the OP's setup with stock cams should be a safe bet at higher pressure.

If you are referring to the OP's issues, stock cams should solve his lumpy idle.

?
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Old 12-16-2008, 01:56 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevo11 View Post
If you are referring to the OP's issues, stock cams should solve his lumpy idle.

?
Ya and so would removing the aftermarket ECU and turbo. I would assume, as any reasonable person would, that the OP wants to keep the cams.
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Old 12-16-2008, 02:09 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevo11 View Post

If you are referring to the OP's issues, stock cams should solve his lumpy idle.

Problem: Mexican food causes my underwear to get streak marks.

Your solution: Don't eat Mexican food.

My solution: 1. Take an antacid. 2. Go to the bathroom sooner.
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Old 12-16-2008, 02:36 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
Problem: Mexican food causes my underwear to get streak marks.

Your solution: Don't eat Mexican food.

My solution: 1. Take an antacid. 2. Go to the bathroom sooner.
no. Wear brown underwear.
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Old 12-16-2008, 02:42 PM   #18
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Does the link have open loop idle control? I know on the adaptronic, you can adjust the values of the open control loop to mellow out certain idle characteristics. One value has to due with hunting throttle, one has to do with sudden throttle change, and one has to do with lumpy throttle. If you could find something similar to that you should be able to trim out whatever the cams are doing.

Running rich at idle can help mellow it out too. Thats been my experience atleast. Your vacuum is suffering from the cam timing more then your cam grinds I imagine. You probably can advance your exhaust cam a bit and alleviate some of the idle issue. You'll loose power on top but your spool should improve a bit. Also generally the vacuum loss is caused by a late intake closing. It happens because the pulses of the cylinders are being mellowed by the piston comming up the bore and reducing the total volume change in the plenum before the valve closes. You can try retarding your intake cam a bit as well. You have to play a balancing game with reversion, overcharging, and under charging.

** watch EGT's as a sooner exhaust opening will mean more unburnt fuel into the exhaust tract. You can easily overheat your valves if you go too much. An idle change could probably be felt with 4 degrees of exhaust cam advance.

Last edited by TravisR; 12-16-2008 at 03:18 PM.
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Old 12-16-2008, 03:11 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayc72 View Post
Ya and so would removing the aftermarket ECU and turbo. I would assume, as any reasonable person would, that the OP wants to keep the cams.
I guess I'm just unreasonable , the link + turbo have been v.good to me (plus its got me in and around the 225hp figure).

Am I wrong in thinking he'll get better performance from the link + turbo than he would from a set of cams?
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Old 12-16-2008, 03:14 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
Problem: Mexican food causes my underwear to get streak marks.

Your solution: Don't eat Mexican food.

My solution: 1. Take an antacid. 2. Go to the bathroom sooner.
I'd agree with that
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