why do I not want to use the AEM engine management? - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


General Miata Chat A place to talk about anything Miata

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-21-2007, 07:52 PM   #1
Tour de Franzia
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default why do I not want to use the AEM engine management?

I was previously dead-set on MS, but I want to be sure I make the best decision. People seem to think Link is crap generally, because AEM does more for the same price. So, since I have the money to play with, why do I not want to go with AEM?


...it will work with the AC right? If I get a wide band, do I need something like the LC-1, or just the sensor?



I didn't know what forum to put this in, so its in here.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2007, 07:58 PM   #2
Senior Member
iTrader: (14)
 
brgracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ambler, PA
Posts: 1,275
Total Cats: 1
Default

Based on your other posts, it seems that you lean toward plug and play so AEM/Hydra/link sounds right up your alley.
brgracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2007, 08:04 PM   #3
Elite Member
iTrader: (13)
 
cjernigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 8,147
Total Cats: 6
Default

Do it. I would have, but i can't afford the AEM right now, but i can afford the hours and hours it takes to go MS.
cjernigan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2007, 08:28 PM   #4
Tour de Franzia
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brgracer View Post
Based on your other posts, it seems that you lean toward plug and play so AEM/Hydra/link sounds right up your alley.
I found out that after I'm done in OKC ( I live in dallas) I'm probably going to Atlanta. I'm now essentially going to attempt to do a 1.8 swap, torsen rear end, 01 sport brakes, turbo install, stand alone engine management, and get RA-1's, all for one track day in june...then not drive the car again until october or so.


lol
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2007, 08:29 PM   #5
Tour de Franzia
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brgracer View Post
Based on your other posts, it seems that you lean toward plug and play so AEM/Hydra/link sounds right up your alley.
why would I do AEM over the link?


Anyone know about the AC conundrum, or the wideband questions?
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2007, 08:34 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Knoxville
Posts: 1,168
Total Cats: 0
Default

I'd like to know what the AEM can do that the MS and link can't.
Al Hounos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2007, 08:34 PM   #7
Senior Member
iTrader: (14)
 
brgracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ambler, PA
Posts: 1,275
Total Cats: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
why would I do AEM over the link?
Link is less powerful than both the AEM and Hydra, but does have a lot more use/experience so there are some pretty solid maps out there for the link + very experienced support from FM. AEM/Hydra has more resolution and better fine tuning + other options such as launch control/etc...

Really depends on whether the extra fine tuning and options are worth it to you. FWIW, I tracked my piggyback EMB without any issues so YMMV.
brgracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2007, 08:37 PM   #8
Tour de Franzia
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brgracer View Post
Link is less powerful than both the AEM and Hydra, but does have a lot more use/experience so there are some pretty solid maps out there for the link + very experienced support from FM. AEM/Hydra has more resolution and better fine tuning + other options such as launch control/etc...

Really depends on whether the extra fine tuning and options are worth it to you. FWIW, I tracked my piggyback EMB without any issues so YMMV.
Everyone says link is "less powerfull," but never elaborate.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2007, 08:54 PM   #9
Ben
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (33)
 
Ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: atlanta-ish
Posts: 12,689
Total Cats: 99
Default

OK, the Link has fewer features that some newer ECUs have. But it has the biggies: full fuel control, full timing control, datalogging, closed or open loop boost control, closed loop fuel control with a wideband (open loop in boost without a wb), knock sensing, IAT sensor post intercooler, MAP based. It has the keypad which is kind of neat. The P-Link is kick ***, there is no competitor for that right now.

The AEM and Hydra have more capabilities than the Link. The Link is maxed out, it has no more room to expand. The others have multiple extra inputs and outputs that can pretty much do whatever--Fancy stuff like launch control, extra injector drivers, water injection control, NOS control, outputs that could be used for warning lamps or different triggers, or pretty much whatever you could think of. I think they both have barometric correction, too--Not sure don't take my word for it.

The Link is trully PNP, it has the female miata harness terminal. The AEM is also PNP, it has a generic multi connector terminal. The Hydra is only PNP because it comes with a patch harness--like a boomslang for the emanage.

The Link and the Hydra come with FM's support. Which means that somebody reliable is always willing to help you tackle problems and go over your maps. The AEM has support similar to MS--it has some dedicated followers who graciously volunteer to help, but there is no promise of receiving help or resolution to a problem.

You know I went with the Link. I know it leaves features on the table that I may possibly want/need one day. But it's simple to use compared to the AEM and Hydra, and has all sorts of real support. The Hydra is more difficult to install and tune, but also has real support. The AEM is probably around the same difficulty as the Hydra.
Ben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2007, 09:01 PM   #10
Junior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Louisville Kentucky
Posts: 222
Total Cats: 0
Default

I know this has been posted before

From turbotim: Real time tuning? Sucked datalogging, making changes, uploading changes, redatalogging, etc

If you can't tune on the fly that =the suck
TwoScoopsofHooah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2007, 09:02 PM   #11
Elite Member
iTrader: (13)
 
cjernigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 8,147
Total Cats: 6
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
OK, the Link has fewer features that some newer ECUs have. But it has the biggies: full fuel control, full timing control, datalogging, closed or open loop boost control, closed loop fuel control with a wideband (open loop in boost without a wb), knock sensing, IAT sensor post intercooler, MAP based. It has the keypad which is kind of neat. The P-Link is kick ***, there is no competitor for that right now.

The AEM and Hydra have more capabilities than the Link. The Link is maxed out, it has no more room to expand. The others have multiple extra inputs and outputs that can pretty much do whatever--Fancy stuff like launch control, extra injector drivers, water injection control, NOS control, outputs that could be used for warning lamps or different triggers, or pretty much whatever you could think of. I think they both have barometric correction, too--Not sure don't take my word for it.

The Link is trully PNP, it has the female miata harness terminal. The AEM is also PNP, it has a generic multi connector terminal. The Hydra is only PNP because it comes with a patch harness--like a boomslang for the emanage.

The Link and the Hydra come with FM's support. Which means that somebody reliable is always willing to help you tackle problems and go over your maps. The AEM has support similar to MS--it has some dedicated followers who graciously volunteer to help, but there is no promise of receiving help or resolution to a problem.

You know I went with the Link. I know it leaves features on the table that I may possibly want/need one day. But it's simple to use compared to the AEM and Hydra, and has all sorts of real support. The Hydra is more difficult to install and tune, but also has real support. The AEM is probably around the same difficulty as the Hydra.
Best overall elaboration i've seen yet. Thanks ben.
cjernigan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2007, 09:26 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Knoxville
Posts: 1,168
Total Cats: 0
Default

Sounds like the only thing the link is missing is WI control. I don't understand why so many people say "omg aem/hydra is so much better!!" unless they think the extra map resolution is that big a deal. it's not like we're running 1000hp RX7s with 65000cc injectors here.
Al Hounos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2007, 10:07 PM   #13
Tour de Franzia
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
OK, the Link has fewer features that some newer ECUs have. But it has the biggies: full fuel control, full timing control, datalogging, closed or open loop boost control, closed loop fuel control with a wideband (open loop in boost without a wb), knock sensing, IAT sensor post intercooler, MAP based. It has the keypad which is kind of neat. The P-Link is kick ***, there is no competitor for that right now.

The AEM and Hydra have more capabilities than the Link. The Link is maxed out, it has no more room to expand. The others have multiple extra inputs and outputs that can pretty much do whatever--Fancy stuff like launch control, extra injector drivers, water injection control, NOS control, outputs that could be used for warning lamps or different triggers, or pretty much whatever you could think of. I think they both have barometric correction, too--Not sure don't take my word for it.

The Link is trully PNP, it has the female miata harness terminal. The AEM is also PNP, it has a generic multi connector terminal. The Hydra is only PNP because it comes with a patch harness--like a boomslang for the emanage.

The Link and the Hydra come with FM's support. Which means that somebody reliable is always willing to help you tackle problems and go over your maps. The AEM has support similar to MS--it has some dedicated followers who graciously volunteer to help, but there is no promise of receiving help or resolution to a problem.

You know I went with the Link. I know it leaves features on the table that I may possibly want/need one day. But it's simple to use compared to the AEM and Hydra, and has all sorts of real support. The Hydra is more difficult to install and tune, but also has real support. The AEM is probably around the same difficulty as the Hydra.

I'm seriously thinking link is the best option for me.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2007, 11:34 PM   #14
Ben
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (33)
 
Ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: atlanta-ish
Posts: 12,689
Total Cats: 99
Default

Hustler,

If you go with the Link and the 99 engine swap, the only thing is you'll need to use your old alternator. The NB alternator is externally regulated by the ECU. The NA alternator has an internal voltage regulator. The Link doesn't have an extra output to control the alternator, so you'll just use your old one.

That's probably the real reason why FM didn't develop the Link for the NB, but the work around is pretty simple.

IMO, the Link may not be the most powerful solution, but it's the easiest. That was important in my decision as it is my first time dealing with a stand alone. It's a good project for someone who can devote only a limited amount of time, but still expect it to work properly. My next ECU will be something more advanced.

Of course, my first Link had issues, and I haven't received the replacement yet, so...
Ben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2007, 11:41 PM   #15
Tour de Franzia
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

do I need an lc-1, or can I just run the wideband without the controller?
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2007, 11:50 PM   #16
Ben
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (33)
 
Ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: atlanta-ish
Posts: 12,689
Total Cats: 99
Default

the lc-1 is the controller. the sensor is a bosch, don't know the model # from the top of my head.

you'll need the lc-1 controller and bosch sensor. that's the package you see at $199 retail. you can't simply hook up a wb sensor to the Link. When the controller is hooked up to the Link, it will run closed loop fueling. Replacement sensors are $50, and last a long time.

You can hook up the NGK sensor straight to the Hydra, assuming that the Hydra WB option is unlocked. There seems to be some controversy as to the lifespan of the NGK sensor connected to the Hydra. The same sensor will go for 100k miles in a Civic (it's OEM for Honda in some apps), but there are reports of it dying after 600 or so hours in other applications. Replacement sensors are $150. FM recommends removing the sensor after tuning is complete, so the Hydra runs open loop in boost.
Ben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2007, 11:55 PM   #17
Tour de Franzia
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

thanks. I assume the AC will work with Link too?
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2007, 11:56 PM   #18
Ben
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (33)
 
Ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: atlanta-ish
Posts: 12,689
Total Cats: 99
Default

yeah of course. Also controls the idle valve and you have several options for the cooling fans too.
Ben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2007, 12:00 AM   #19
Tour de Franzia
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
yeah of course. Also controls the idle valve and you have several options for the cooling fans too.
That sounds much better than what I went through with Haltech. Triggers didn't work with their corresponding assignments, the wideband voltage never read out, kept burning up coils, ... It was ******* hell.


i'm really thinking about link, lc-1, begi manifold, begi dp, begi coolant reroute pipes, truck shop oil lines, ebay turbo, stripes ic, bosch bov, manual boost controller, dxd sintered iron clutch, and 3" exhaust. I think I can do all that for $4k.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2007, 12:04 AM   #20
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,904
Total Cats: 4
Default

THere is a new AEM box comming out. Think of it as an AEM lite and its a piggy back. Look into that. I think FM is working on making it a PnP
Pitlab77 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap Full_Tilt_Boogie Build Threads 59 12-15-2017 09:00 PM
Changing from 460cc to flow force 610cc in diypnp 90 Turbo MEGAsquirt 19 10-19-2015 04:23 PM
Expected intake temps on the track? tazswing Race Prep 20 10-03-2015 12:04 PM
Back to Stock Part Out!! Turbo Parts, MS2 Enhanced 01-05, Suspension, and MOAR! StratoBlue1109 Miata parts for sale/trade 16 10-02-2015 10:39 AM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:31 PM.